Store kicks out disabled woman driving scooter

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

One and the same I'm sure. No one who has ever stepped foot on the UofC campus doesn't have a story about her. She has a scooter and that gives her the right of way. Myself and a friend were caught behind her on a residential road just east of the University one day. Clear day, no snow, nothing stopping her from driving close to the sidewalk... she was in the middle of the lane... going slower then the top speed of the scooter.

That reminds me of the young guy on the plus 15 with his red scooter that I have seen walking with the cane.

He works in the same building I do and expects me to help him cause he is in a scooter and too lazy to get out. If you use the scooter cause you knees hurt but you can still walk - sorry no sympathy here - damn Costanzas.

MYK

[Flames_Gimp]

just because someone can walk a bit, doesn't mean they are lazy, or a faker......

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Wrong. Public buildings have to be barrier free for people in wheel chairs. It is in the Building code. So small stores or restaurants that aren't wheel chair accessible have either been built before the code or they are not up to code, which is against the law. Small stores and restaurants are public buildings.

It is not that hard to be accomodate people in wheel chairs. It's just a matter of having a ramp or curb cut, and having a larger bathroom and corridors.

I thought the code only mentions access - IE a ramp.

Nothing about aisle width etc?

I was under the impression that up until the entrace of the buisness its public property - inside the doors its private?

MYK

[Flames_Gimp]

some of these posts remind me of a Ralph Klein quote, one he took alot of flak for... "they don't look disabled".

guess you guys have so many years experience treating neuromuscular patients you can determin the severity of their disability just by looking at them.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

That reminds me of the young guy on the plus 15 with his red scooter that I have seen walking with the cane.

He works in the same building I do and expects me to help him cause he is in a scooter and too lazy to get out. If you use the scooter cause you knees hurt but you can still walk - sorry no sympathy here - damn Costanzas.

MYK

Wow, you really have no idea about disability, do you?

Let me ask you this: If you had a disability that limited your movement which would you rather do; move about without any sort of aid for one hour and spend the rest of the day too exhausted to have any sort of productive life for the rest of the day or utilize adaptive equipment for activities that would otherwise drain your physical resources but otherwise lead a productive existence?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by eazyduzzit

By the sounds of things..this was a private business.

The city/province has more of a responsibility to provide for the disabled citizens than an avarage joe running his own store. Especially when that disabled citizen is paying taxes, they have the right to that disabled spot or that bank in the curb just as much as i have the right to better roads etc with my tax dollars. But when we are talking privately owned small businesses, i believe it's up to the owner to decide what he/she should and should not do and nobody should be in the way to dictate.

As far as the Building code is concerned there is no such thing as a "private business" in this sense. This store is in a mall, is not private, it is public. The building states, "...access shall be provided to all storeys of buildings of new construction." The Building code exists for a reason. A shop owner is required by law to follow it, despite the fact that he owns his business. He can't make it out of popsicle sticks, because it will fall down. He can't make the wall of blankets because it won't keep a climate. You have make it accessible to wheel chairs because we live in a fair society. This decision is not in the shop owners hands.

Being disabled is just that - disabled - so you can't expect to be able to have access to everything those who aren't do. That just isn't feisable or logic thinking. As a society, we try out best to accommodate those with special needs, but at the end of the day, it cannot be perfect.

You say we need to accommodate, and that is exactly why this has been put into the building code to accomplish. If people are putting up buildings that are not barrier free, because of their choice, then we are just moving backwards.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

That reminds me of the young guy on the plus 15 with his red scooter that I have seen walking with the cane.

He works in the same building I do and expects me to help him cause he is in a scooter and too lazy to get out. If you use the scooter cause you knees hurt but you can still walk - sorry no sympathy here - damn Costanzas.

Man, don't be ignorant.

I have an uncle who was forced to use a scooter for years until his Lou Gerics shockingly recessed. He would walk at times, but he needed a scooter alot to get around as well, too much pressure and pain on the joints. Doesn't mean he was lazy.

My problem with the UofC scooter lady is that she is a bitch, and she would be regardless of if she is in a scooter or not.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

huh?

I just thought it was odd you were so offended he brushed off your needs, but turned around and brushed off the needs of the blind. I just thought it was odd. Like don't be an ******* to me, but I'll be an ass to someone else.

[burn_baby_burn]

I don't think the issue in this case is accesability. The lady in the scooter did get into the store on her scooter before she was asked to leave.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I thought the code only mentions access - IE a ramp.

Nothing about aisle width etc?

I was under the impression that up until the entrace of the buisness its public property - inside the doors its private?

MYK

No it is far more encompassing that just access into the buildings. Ramps curb cuts are a big one, also restrooms get a large consideration. This is from the building code,

access to all areas where work functions can reasonably be expected to be performed by persons with disabilities.

Basically that says is that every part of a building (corridors, aisles) must be barrier free (ie to accommdate a wheel chair). Except where it is unreasonable to do so.

Buildings that do not fall into this category are mostly buildings that are being grandfathered, support a function that is unreasonable for a wheel chair or a blind person, and most industrial buildings.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

My problem with the UofC scooter lady is that she is a bitch, and she would be regardless of if she is in a scooter or not.

Who is this person?

Because it reminds of this lady that has a scooter that I always saw in the Shawnessy area when I use to work down there. She was such a grumpy bag. Everyone that worked down there knew who she was. She would hassle eveyone and would act extremely rude. She also stole! And when stores would confort her on the stealing she would play her "wheel chair card" so to speak, and would create a scene about how they were treating someone in a scooter like this etc. It was quite a touchy situation as store owners would feel bad for calling the police on her. For the record she was in a scooter because she was morbidly obese.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I just thought it was odd you were so offended he brushed off your needs, but turned around and brushed off the needs of the blind. I just thought it was odd. Like don't be an ******* to me, but I'll be an ass to someone else.

oh, i wasn't brushing it off at all. seriously, though...when has braille on price tags been an issue and what does it have to do with wheelchair accesibility in the aisles of a store?

anyways I just thought it was an ignorant comparison to make.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Who is this person?

Because it reminds of this lady that has a scooter that I always saw in the Shawnessy area when I use to work down there. She was such a grumpy bag. Everyone that worked down there knew who she was. She would hassle eveyone and would act extremely rude. She also stole! And when stores would confort her on the stealing she would play her "wheel chair card" so to speak, and would create a scene about how they were treating someone in a scooter like this etc. It was quite a touchy situation as store owners would feel bad for calling the police on her. For the record she was in a scooter because she was morbidly obese.

I remember seeing her when i lived down there.. man I feel sorry for that scooter...

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Wow, you really have no idea about disability, do you?

Let me ask you this: If you had a disability that limited your movement which would you rather do; move about without any sort of aid for one hour and spend the rest of the day too exhausted to have any sort of productive life for the rest of the day or utilize adaptive equipment for activities that would otherwise drain your physical resources but otherwise lead a productive existence?

A guy who can walk 2 blocks with his cane, but also uses a scooter doesnt get my sympathy - sorry. I feel sorry for those who need the scooters - I know the diff between somene getting up to use the washroom and using the scooter everywhere else and those who use the scooter cause the cane is to slow or not as convienient and I wont feel sorry for those poeple.

He reminds me of old people who use scooters but could walk but either thrie back hurts or knees - and I wont apologize for not feeling sorry for those people.

You have a hurt back, dont expect my damn sympathy.

MYK

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

You have a hurt back, dont expect my damn sympathy.

MYK

They don't want, or need your sympanty, especially since you're an idiot.

[eazyduzzit]

Originally Posted by Burninator

As far as the Building code is concerned there is no such thing as a "private business" in this sense. This store is in a mall, is not private, it is public. The building states, "...access shall be provided to all storeys of buildings of new construction." The Building code exists for a reason. A shop owner is required by law to follow it, despite the fact that he owns his business. He can't make it out of popsicle sticks, because it will fall down. He can't make the wall of blankets because it won't keep a climate. You have make it accessible to wheel chairs because we live in a fair society. This decision is not in the shop owners hands.

That was my opinion, since this is a free country i believe i should be entitled to build my store how i want it - with exception to saftey codes aside. I just believe there is a big different between a multi-billion dollar corporation such as Wal-Mart and that of an insignificant local operation.

Originally Posted by Burninator

You say we need to accommodate, and that is exactly why this has been put into the building code to accomplish. If people are putting up buildings that are not barrier free, because of their choice, then we are just moving backwards.

What i was trying to say is, as a disabled person, your not going to have access to everywhere, nor should you expect it, nor should the laws require.

Municipal, Provincial and Federal property should all accomodate to you for sure for tax reasons and because you are a citizen of the country. But when it comes to privately owned small businesses, you simply cannot expect all of these places to be accessible to the disabled. Lots of things factor in, money, square footage and right down to which disabilities. (As someone has pointed out, with the visually impared argument)

I'm all for Safeway, Wal-mart and other big corporations to have measures in place to accomodate the disabled, but when it boils right down to some avarage joe who operates one store in [/i]one[/i] location, i feel these types of businesses should be exempt from these "guidelines" simply for the fact every location should not be expected to accomodate disabilities.

I'm not trying to be a dick, i just feel your at a loss when you have a disability and the entire world cannot function to your liking nor should "building codes" include every which business.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Wow, you really have no idea about disability, do you?

Let me ask you this: If you had a disability that limited your movement which would you rather do; move about without any sort of aid for one hour and spend the rest of the day too exhausted to have any sort of productive life for the rest of the day or utilize adaptive equipment for activities that would otherwise drain your physical resources but otherwise lead a productive existence?

Originally Posted by mykalberta

A guy who can walk 2 blocks with his cane, but also uses a scooter doesnt get my sympathy - sorry. I feel sorry for those who need the scooters - I know the diff between somene getting up to use the washroom and using the scooter everywhere else and those who use the scooter cause the cane is to slow or not as convienient and I wont feel sorry for those poeple.

He reminds me of old people who use scooters but could walk but either thrie back hurts or knees - and I wont apologize for not feeling sorry for those people.

You have a hurt back, dont expect my damn sympathy.

MYK

That, in no way, answers my question.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by eazyduzzit

I'm not trying to be a dick...

Well, you should be pleased that you're able to accomplish a task without even trying.

[eazyduzzit]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Well, you should be pleased that you're able to accomplish a task without even trying.

I'm being a dick because i feel as though small barley-profitable businesses should not be held to the same standards as multi-billion dollar corportations?

Yeah, ok.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Burninator

You comparison doesn't really work. Refusing to serve drunk and/or underage people is against the anyways. Those are liqour laws that you need to uphold to keep your liqour license. Now these are the laws here in Canada, those laws may be different in Britain, I suspect not, but maybe.

Refusing someone service in your store because they are in a wheel chair doesn't fall into "your right" as a store owner, it falls into discrimination.

Learn to read. There's not one person here who has suggested removing someone because they're in a wheel chair.
If I'm a shop owner and someone is being rude and aggressive and knocking things over and damaging goods I want the right to kick that person out, who ever they are on the planet. We don't know that even happened, so the shop keeper could well still be in the wrong. I'm just saying in theory there are circumstances underwhich anyone could behave in an order to warrent removeal.