Conservative Leadership Debate: Who's the Next Premier of Alberta?

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

I thought the rather loaded question sent Morton's way questioning how much he'd impress his personal views on Albertans was valid. Quite frankly, that's what people want to know about you Ted.

What's the deal with a provincial police force? I just don't see the need to have our own. Have Albertans lost faith in the RCMP? If not, why spend the tens of millions in creating our own police force? Just to say we have our own? Wouldn't that money be better spent on other things?

During the Debate Morton said he will reflect the views and preferences of party members. I have heard him say several times that he plans on listening to the grass roots and that the policies implemented will be from the grass roots. I think that it is pretty clear that he won't be imposing his ideas.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Funny... that is the ONE part of his platform i support!

haha, me too. Ralph bucks were the biggest waste of money ever in this province. The infrastructure that could have been built with that money could have helped many people for generations.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

During the Debate Morton said he will reflect the views and preferences of party members. I have heard him say several times that he plans on listening to the grass roots and that the policies implemented will be from the grass roots. I think that it is pretty clear that he won't be imposing his ideas.

To me that is a cop-out, shouldn't Teddy already have his fingers on the pulse of the party? And like someone said earlier who exactly is clamoring for policies like our own Police Force?

I am voting for Dinning but have a feeling that Ed will sneak through on the second ballot.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

During the Debate Morton said he will reflect the views and preferences of party members. I have heard him say several times that he plans on listening to the grass roots and that the policies implemented will be from the grass roots. I think that it is pretty clear that he won't be imposing his ideas.

Yeah, that's his party line. It ain't me - it's the will of the people. Pretty fortunate his own views co-incide with "the people's" though. I suspect grass roots to him means your Concerned Conservative crowd that'll actually attend his town hall meetings. Not exactly a mainstream sample of urban Alberta.

Any candidate with the Jesus Rules! camp behind him sets off alarm bells for me. Least of all the wacky Republic of Alberta policies.

Why is politics always about the lesser of evils?

[peter12]

Any candidate with the Jesus Rules! camp behind him sets off alarm bells for me. Least of all the wacky Republic of Alberta policies.

Good point. The guys who ran Day's leadership campaign have taken up Morton's campaign. These guys are dangerous, I'm not sure if Ted knows that he is playing with fire.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Funny... that is the ONE part of his platform i support!



That is incrediably naive thinking. (Coming from someone who has spent the last 8 years of their life working in the Calgary Health Region.)

It is just not that easy.

If it was that easy America would spend less on health care then Canada - but in fact their costs are escalating like ours, are higher then ours, and in fact are amongst the highest in the developed world.




Claeren.

My mom has been part of the LPN union most of her life (since she was 18) and an active participant in the last negotiations so I know the screw job they have gotten because their union wasnt as militant as the RN's. And I see the "highly trained" RN's sitting at the desks of small town hospitals while its the LPNs that do most of the manual labour.

I am not saying it would be that easy and I dont have every answer because I dont work in the medical field but I know if controllable costs (people) continue to escalate like they have in the last 4 years then our system will be in serious trouble.

MYK

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Yes but in rural areas with their ONE obligatory South African Doctor, they stand a good chance to lose that one doctor to the bright lights, big city, big dollars clinics. Then they're left with a NO -tier health care system in their local area. I suppose some doc could setup their own private GP in a rural center but Ted kept promising us we wouldn't pay more from our pockets right? Uh huh....



That depends on the treatment in question - minor outpatient procedures perhaps, but in a cardiac ward, I want the best experienced and trained nurse standing watch. That said, your RN/LPN ratios could also be applied to the public health care model with similar savings, if it weren't for the nice folks at the United Nurses of Alberta.

Per the first point, I would also make it mandatory for any medical student who recieves their training in Alberta, be forced to work for 10 years in Alberta because of the subisidized education recieved. Maybe I have a different idea of what a 2 teir system would look like than others but I dont think it would be this golden parachute for doctors that people think. Its like dentists - those with the entreapaneurial spirit would start their own practicies and reap the rewards, those who just want the "9-5" job would work public system. The only way I see doctors making more money than in the public system is either as buisness owners or non union doctors working say 60 hours a week - I dont see a regular "9-5" doctor making more in the private practice than in public on a per hour basis.

I see the same number of hospitals in the cities with the towns reduced to directed medical care centres - maybe 10-20 beds for every 10K people - the rest shipped to Edmonton/Calgary/Red Deer/Lethbridge etc - emergency situations only, where I grew up the hostpital acts more like a seniors home than an actual hospital.

As per the "Ted kept promising us we wouldn't pay more from our pockets right? Uh huh...." - I think he is right. Ted isnt an idiot, for all his RIGHT RIGHT wing policies he knows he has to still abide by the Canada Health Act - the only way around that is separation and not enough people (including myslef) would vote for it (I am alot closer after hearing what Chirac had to say about the Afghan mission - can the TV show's "Unit" not take him out - geesh ) I still see 2 teir as being more 2 different distribution channels rather than queue jumping.

As per the RN/LPN ration - that is just an obvious example I gave and no I dont think it can be done in the public sector given the militant unions. I look at 2 teir as kind of like Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection for the province. It allows you to legally skirt union contracts and change the game.

I am sure there are alot of other synergies that could be realized with 2 competing distribution channels - the problem is only the blatently obvious ones are known as every politician is ***** ass afraid to actually take a constructive look at it.

MYK

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Yeah, that's his party line. It ain't me - it's the will of the people. Pretty fortunate his own views co-incide with "the people's" though. I suspect grass roots to him means your Concerned Conservative crowd that'll actually attend his town hall meetings. Not exactly a mainstream sample of urban Alberta.

Any candidate with the Jesus Rules! camp behind him sets off alarm bells for me. Least of all the wacky Republic of Alberta policies.

Why is politics always about the lesser of evils?

I was a Dinning supporter at the beginning of this entire race. However, as a conservative I have a real problem with a liberal running a conservative party. When I looked at all the platforms combined with hearing about Dinnings $25,000 cheque to Paul Martin made me re-think where I was placing my vote. I will not vote for a liberal and definately will not vote for a liberal to lead a conservative party.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Per the first point, I would also make it mandatory for any medical student who recieves their training in Alberta, be forced to work for 10 years in Alberta because of the subisidized education recieved.

Now maybe it is just me but I really would not think that this is fair. Medical students are not the only ones subsidized in Alberta but so is everyone who goes to law school and any university for that matter. But we wouldn't make any attempts to make these people stay in the province. Doesn't make sense.

Secondly even if something like this were instituted it would not be fair as a persons life circumstances can change over a 10 year period. For example if a med student got married 2 years after being done and their spouse was being transferred out of Alberta. No fault of theirs that they have to move and they aren't moving to chase money.

[Table 5]

Forcing somebody to stay in one location is the best way to keep them from coming here in the first place.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Per the first point, I would also make it mandatory for any medical student who recieves their training in Alberta, be forced to work for 10 years in Alberta because of the subisidized education recieved.

That would pretty much spell the end of medical schools in Alberta. Who would sign up for that kind of indentured servitude? Maybe if the province offers to pay off the 100k student loans at the end you might be able to attract the doctors that couldn't get into medical school anywhere else.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

I was a Dinning supporter at the beginning of this entire race. However, as a conservative I have a real problem with a liberal running a conservative party. When I looked at all the platforms combined with hearing about Dinnings $25,000 cheque to Paul Martin made me re-think where I was placing my vote. I will not vote for a liberal and definately will not vote for a liberal to lead a conservative party.

Then why did you support Dinning in the first place?

[Suave]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Per the first point, I would also make it mandatory for any medical student who recieves their training in Alberta, be forced to work for 10 years in Alberta because of the subisidized education recieved.
MYK

I think the Province makes back anything they subsidize with Med Students when they basically work for free during their clerkship and residency years.

[jharp]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

I thought that Dinning is just a little too slick. He doesn't make me want to trust him and I even question if he is a real conservative. When news comes out that he donated to Paul Martins leadership campaign, gets an endorsement from a left leaning Mayor of Edmonton (Mandel), and finally gets endorsed by former Liberal Deputy PM Anne McLellan it just seems to confirm that he really is a Liberal.

did this really happen??
if so i think i will have to buy a membership and vote for morton, just so he doesnt get elected.

i dont know a whole bunch about this race, but dinning seems to have a lot of the same characteristics that martin had going into the federal liberal leadership race, as well as his first election. i hope for alberta's sake this is not a fair or valid comparison.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Per the first point, I would also make it mandatory for any medical student who recieves their training in Alberta, be forced to work for 10 years in Alberta because of the subisidized education recieved. Maybe I have a different idea of what a 2 teir system would look like than others but I dont think it would be this golden parachute for doctors that people think. Its like dentists - those with the entreapaneurial spirit would start their own practicies and reap the rewards, those who just want the "9-5" job would work public system. The only way I see doctors making more money than in the public system is either as buisness owners or non union doctors working say 60 hours a week - I dont see a regular "9-5" doctor making more in the private practice than in public on a per hour basis.

I have several friends who are in the midst of their medical residency. All of them had multiple offers for med schools and facing a mandatory period of residency here would pretty much make the UofC and UofA dead last for recruiting candidates. Doctors are an extremely mobile group, and move around for residency and career opportunities often. We're trying to attract them here, let alone scare them off.

I see your concept of what two tiered heath care would look like but it falters on one simple point - there aren't enough doctors to support 1 system, let alone two. Even the "9-5er" as you put it would be smarter to work in a private clinic for those hours and make more.

It's funny you mention dentistry as a model for this. Dentists theoretically have a Rate Guide from the ADA for what they should charge. Most dentists however charge above that. Catch is that the insurance companies will typically only compensate you for whats in the rate guide. Who pays for the rest? You do. I guess you could shope around for a cheaper dentist but if it's your wife having a baby, are you going to cheap out on an OB?

Have you noticed the boom in cosmetic dentistry only practices lately? I can't go to a dentist that doesn't push tooth whitening or veneers on me lately. Bottom line, people go where the money is, and there aren't enough doctors and nurses to go around to keep two systems going.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by jharp

did this really happen??
if so i think i will have to buy a membership and vote for morton, just so he doesnt get elected.

i dont know a whole bunch about this race, but dinning seems to have a lot of the same characteristics that martin had going into the federal liberal leadership race, as well as his first election. i hope for alberta's sake this is not a fair or valid comparison.

Jim Dinning did send $25,000 to Paul Martins Campaign on behalf of his employer, TransAlta Corp., along with a personal note wishing Martin success. So in short yes it did happen.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Then why did you support Dinning in the first place?

I originally supported Dinning when I had read through only some of his platform (I do agree with a few of his ideas but not majority of them). I was also partially basing my support upon when he was the former finance minister (Guess I can't rely on the past).

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

Jim Dinning did send $25,000 to Paul Martins Campaign on behalf of his employer, TransAlta Corp., along with a personal note wishing Martin success. So in short yes it did happen.

So just to clarify TransAlta ponied up the cash, not Dinning himself.

I could never vote for someone who wants to turn back the clock on social issues (gay rights etc.) and puts Alberta's interests ahead of Canada's...not much better than the separtists in Quebec in my opinion.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Per the first point, I would also make it mandatory for any medical student who recieves their training in Alberta, be forced to work for 10 years in Alberta because of the subisidized education recieved. Maybe I have a different idea of what a 2 teir system would look like than others but I dont think it would be this golden parachute for doctors that people think. Its like dentists - those with the entreapaneurial spirit would start their own practicies and reap the rewards, those who just want the "9-5" job would work public system. The only way I see doctors making more money than in the public system is either as buisness owners or non union doctors working say 60 hours a week - I dont see a regular "9-5" doctor making more in the private practice than in public on a per hour basis.

I see the same number of hospitals in the cities with the towns reduced to directed medical care centres - maybe 10-20 beds for every 10K people - the rest shipped to Edmonton/Calgary/Red Deer/Lethbridge etc - emergency situations only, where I grew up the hostpital acts more like a seniors home than an actual hospital.

As per the "Ted kept promising us we wouldn't pay more from our pockets right? Uh huh...." - I think he is right. Ted isnt an idiot, for all his RIGHT RIGHT wing policies he knows he has to still abide by the Canada Health Act - the only way around that is separation and not enough people (including myslef) would vote for it (I am alot closer after hearing what Chirac had to say about the Afghan mission - can the TV show's "Unit" not take him out - geesh ) I still see 2 teir as being more 2 different distribution channels rather than queue jumping.

As per the RN/LPN ration - that is just an obvious example I gave and no I dont think it can be done in the public sector given the militant unions. I look at 2 teir as kind of like Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection for the province. It allows you to legally skirt union contracts and change the game.

I am sure there are alot of other synergies that could be realized with 2 competing distribution channels - the problem is only the blatently obvious ones are known as every politician is ***** ass afraid to actually take a constructive look at it.

MYK

No Offence but the concept of forcing folks to work here for 10 years has two massive problems.

1. How exactly do you police that and who will pay for it?
2. Do you think that it would take 1 year or 2 years for all of the medical programs in university colleges and university to be destroyed?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So you're voting for Morton because people hated him a year ago?

I'm voting for Morton because I agree with his ideas..his platform. To me he is a lot like Klein.

I think I already pointed that out...maybe you missed it.