Polonium-210 found in Russian ex-spy's body

[Azure]

Hell with it...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Looger

hey, no problem.

and thanks for not going after me anymore in threads i'm not even in, believe me i've noticed.

Do I?

Seriously...I started this thread because I wanted the reaction from a variety of posters on here...regarding what happened.

I didn't expect a thread about what happened to a former KGB agent...to be turned into..the CIA is bad.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Looger

this one WAS ugly.

look, nowhere in this thread did i say the KGB is GOOD.

for god's sakes it's the same friggin thing as america's system now! homeland security is HIRING these wackos! the israeli faction of the neo-cons were trained in the soviet union!

but the VAST majority of the deaths in eastern europe were not orchestrated by the KGB, it was by the NKVD. it's very very simple.

if people want to confuse the two then the case could me made that russian special operations have killed more than american. but that WAS NOT the original question.

unreal.

You really have to bundle the NKVD and the KGB as one singular identity. since the KGB was just an amalgimation of two different security agencies, the NKGB and the MVD so that all internal and external security affairs merged under one body. the internal structure and leadership of both organizations never changed. Now you can certainly sluff off a lot of deaths to Stalin's poisoned pens, however Beria and the KGB was certainly riding shotgun, created the gulags, and provided the apparatus to obtain the falls confessions. You also have to remember that when they pointed at you and declared you a traitor, you died, and your entire family was either imprisoned or sentenced to a silent slow death in Siberia, so the KGB was certainly guilty of causing 40 million deaths. You also have to accept the fact that the KGB created and imported thier methods to not only the Soviet satellite states thus interfearing in friendly nations. But the KGB also supplied arms and finances to a great many of the worst terrorist groups. For example Ayman-al-Zawahiri received training in a FSB sponsored camp in 1998 (I know, I know its FSB, but I found it interesting.). Carlos the Jackal was funded and trained by the KGB, as was PFLA, the KGB certainly got its hands dirty with the IRA, Arafat was a great friend to the KGB, as was the Red Army Faction.

There were a great many more, these are just a few examples.

Interesting topic though.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Getting back on track.... CNN had this factoid:

Polonium is so exceedingly rare that only about 100 grams is believed to be produced each year, said Dr. Mike Keir, a radiation protection adviser at Royal Victoria Infirmary.

Expensive way to off someone... why use a rusty shiv when a few grams of one of the most rare elements will do.

I know I wouldn't like to have been the guy using the "serving" plate next.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Getting back on track.... CNN had this factoid:

Polonium is so exceedingly rare that only about 100 grams is believed to be produced each year, said Dr. Mike Keir, a radiation protection adviser at Royal Victoria Infirmary.

Expensive way to off someone... why use a rusty shiv when a few grams of one of the most rare elements will do.

I know I wouldn't like to have been the guy using the "serving" plate next.

Kinda makes a compelling argument that its a murder by a nation state dosen't it. What a stupid footprint.

However, from what I understand, this stuff is a guaranteed death sentence, whereas a rusty shiv isn't. And its going to be impossible to track this murder back to the RVS with DNA evidence, blood trails, and witness statements whereas a violent crime is usually easily solvable.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You really have to bundle the NKVD and the KGB as one singular identity. since the KGB was just an amalgimation of two different security agencies, the NKGB and the MVD so that all internal and external security affairs merged under one body. the internal structure and leadership of both organizations never changed. Now you can certainly sluff off a lot of deaths to Stalin's poisoned pens, however Beria and the KGB was certainly riding shotgun, created the gulags, and provided the apparatus to obtain the falls confessions. You also have to remember that when they pointed at you and declared you a traitor, you died, and your entire family was either imprisoned or sentenced to a silent slow death in Siberia, so the KGB was certainly guilty of causing 40 million deaths. You also have to accept the fact that the KGB created and imported thier methods to not only the Soviet satellite states thus interfearing in friendly nations. But the KGB also supplied arms and finances to a great many of the worst terrorist groups. For example Ayman-al-Zawahiri received training in a FSB sponsored camp in 1998 (I know, I know its FSB, but I found it interesting.). Carlos the Jackal was funded and trained by the KGB, as was PFLA, the KGB certainly got its hands dirty with the IRA, Arafat was a great friend to the KGB, as was the Red Army Faction.

There were a great many more, these are just a few examples.

Interesting topic though.

like i said, if we're talking ALL russian intelligence / police then it's no contest. the russians 'win'. <shiver>

but if we're talking letters KGB versus CIA then you should also be aware that it came out in the early 90s that Red Army Faction, and many other leftist extemists in europe, were completely infiltrated, directed, and aided by western intelligence, PLUS the KGB.

an interesting aside on stalin's crimes is that he managed to get the local governors to committ a lot of the visible transgressions, opening themselves and their bureacracies to further purges, often fueled by the citizens themselves.

but old man george is probably the poster child all-time for CIA covert ops, he's got the blue blood, the nazi connections (his dad and thiessen), and my original intent was to say that he doesn't compare too well with the VERY dirty putin in terms of pure evil. this is a guy that lied to the american people aboot the iraqi army throwing kuwaiti babies out of the incubators in hospitals, it was a $15M PR campaign and the girl that testified in front of the UN was the kuwaiti ambassador's daughter. this came out on CBC some time after. that's as dirty as you'll see old man george get on national television, but it's not the end stop. the carlyle group in particular is so dirty with the same money that backs islamic terror that i cannot believe people aren't up in arms aboot it.

as for putin, the bombings in moscow in 1999, blamed publicly on the chechen rebels, are commonly thought to have been putin's boys. he's no saint.

i stand by what i said. i never anywhere claimed that the CIA was worse than the entirety of russian / soviet secret ops and police, this is past the point of ridiculous.

i don't think we're disagreeing here CaptainCrunch - i think you... think we are.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Another thread hijacked.

Wonderful.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Getting back on track.... CNN had this factoid:

Polonium is so exceedingly rare that only about 100 grams is believed to be produced each year, said Dr. Mike Keir, a radiation protection adviser at Royal Victoria Infirmary.

Expensive way to off someone... why use a rusty shiv when a few grams of one of the most rare elements will do.

I know I wouldn't like to have been the guy using the "serving" plate next.

Brings us back to the idea of who carried out the murder.

Who has access to that kind of stuff? I'm sure the US, Russia, and a few other countries are capable of producing it.

[Looger]

here's another source to Azure's original post:

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/11/24/lastwords.shtml

In his last interview the poisoned former Russian security agent Alexander Litvinenko said that the hit on him had been ordered from the Kremlin, The Times daily reported on Friday.

“I want to survive, just to show them,” Alexander Litvinenko said in an exclusive interview given just hours before he died.

The former Russian security officer suggested that he knew he may not win his struggle against the lethal chemicals destroying his vital organs. But he said the campaign for truth would go on with or without him.

“The *******s got me,” he whispered. “But they won’t get everybody.”

Mr Litvinenko, 43, uttered his last defiant words to Andrei Nekrasov, a friend and film-maker, who had visited him in University College Hospital in London every day this week.

seems pretty clear at least to him.

there's always going to be the same 3 or 4 suspects when these exotic methods are used, i think a lot of the spy types are a little too elaborate.

as mentioned above a rusty shiv would have done... there's even plenty of poisons that are nearly untracable, there's masers that create heart attacks, there's guns that fire ice shards (getting back to georgie), this was chosen to send a message i guess...

[Azure]

Sort of an update..

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Internatio...ory?id=2677295

LONDON Nov 25, 2006 (AP)— A rare radioactive substance killed an ex-KGB spy turned Kremlin critic, the British government said Friday. In a dramatic statement written before he died, the man called Russian President Vladimir Putin "barbaric and ruthless" and blamed him personally for the poisoning.

[Looger]

page 4 of Azure's link:

In Moscow, pro-Kremlin legislators pointed at Berezovsky, who amassed a fortune in dubious privatization deals after the 1991 Soviet collapse but fled to London after falling out of favor with Putin. He has been a persistent critic of Putin and worked with Litvinenko.
Lawmakers questioned whether the two critics had a falling out and argued the Kremlin had nothing to gain from Litvinenko's death. "I think this is another game of some kind by Berezovsky," Valery Dyatlenko said on Channel One.

sure.

standard russian denial, blame someone else!

might as well be an admission of guilt as far as i'm concerned, add this one to the gigantic file on russian political murders.

[icarus]

I also immediately thought of the atomic weight of bolonium when I saw this thread title.

Seriously though, Putin needs to stop killing dissidents. It is ridiculous. The bravest journalist in the country, Anna Politkovskaya, was also offed by Putin in October. She had previously been poisoned during the Beslan hostage situation so that she could not report on it. She was a hero to those who value a free press. Litvinenko was investigating her death.

Democracy is a farce if dissidents are murdered.

Watch the programme on this link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ld/6180668.stm

[Hack&Lube]

If were those anti-smoking advocate people right now, I'd be throwing a ton of money on TV advertising related to this.

Because, believe it or not, even though only abour 100g of Polonium-210 is ever synthesized in laboratories per year by bombarding barium...

Polonium-210 can be found in Cigarettes.

Yes.

That's so insane.

"To grow what the tobacco industry calls "more flavorful" tobacco,
US farmers use high-phosphate fertilizers. The phosphate is taken from a rock
mineral, apatite, that is ground into powder, dissolved in acid and further processed.
Apatite rock contains radium, radioactive lead 210 and polonium 210. The radioactivity
of common chemical fertilizer can be verified with a Geiger-Mueller counter and an
open sack of everyday 13-13-13 type of fertilizer (or any other chemical fertilizer
high in phosphate content). (4)

Conservative estimates put the level of radiation absorbed
by a pack-and-a-half a day smoker at the equivalent of 300
chest X-rays every year. (5) The Office of Radiation, Chemical
& Biological Safety at Michigan State University report that the
radiation level for the same smoker was as high as 800 chest
X-rays per year (6). Another author argues that a typical nicotine
addict might be getting the equivalent of almost 22,000 chest X-rays
per year. (7) US Surgeon General C. Everett Koop stated in 1990
that tobacco radiation is probably responsible for most of tobacco
-related cancer. (8)"

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If were those anti-smoking advocate people right now, I'd be throwing a ton of money on TV advertising related to this.

Because, believe it or not, even though only abour 100g of Polonium-210 is ever synthesized in laboratories per year by bombarding barium...

Polonium-210 can be found in Cigarettes.

Yes.

That's so insane.

"To grow what the tobacco industry calls "more flavorful" tobacco,
US farmers use high-phosphate fertilizers. The phosphate is taken from a rock
mineral, apatite, that is ground into powder, dissolved in acid and further processed.
Apatite rock contains radium, radioactive lead 210 and polonium 210. The radioactivity
of common chemical fertilizer can be verified with a Geiger-Mueller counter and an
open sack of everyday 13-13-13 type of fertilizer (or any other chemical fertilizer
high in phosphate content). (4)

Conservative estimates put the level of radiation absorbed
by a pack-and-a-half a day smoker at the equivalent of 300
chest X-rays every year. (5) The Office of Radiation, Chemical
& Biological Safety at Michigan State University report that the
radiation level for the same smoker was as high as 800 chest
X-rays per year (6). Another author argues that a typical nicotine
addict might be getting the equivalent of almost 22,000 chest X-rays
per year. (7) US Surgeon General C. Everett Koop stated in 1990
that tobacco radiation is probably responsible for most of tobacco
-related cancer. (8)"

Holy shnikey's.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Conservative estimates put the level of radiation absorbed
by a pack-and-a-half a day smoker at the equivalent of 300
chest X-rays every year. (5) The Office of Radiation, Chemical
& Biological Safety at Michigan State University report that the
radiation level for the same smoker was as high as 800 chest
X-rays per year (6). Another author argues that a typical nicotine
addict might be getting the equivalent of almost 22,000 chest X-rays
per year. (7) US Surgeon General C. Everett Koop stated in 1990
that tobacco radiation is probably responsible for most of tobacco
-related cancer. (8)"

Yowza. And people are afraid of nuclear reactors...

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If were those anti-smoking advocate people right now, I'd be throwing a ton of money on TV advertising related to this.

Because, believe it or not, even though only abour 100g of Polonium-210 is ever synthesized in laboratories per year by bombarding barium...

Polonium-210 can be found in Cigarettes.

Yes.

That's so insane.

"To grow what the tobacco industry calls "more flavorful" tobacco,
US farmers use high-phosphate fertilizers. The phosphate is taken from a rock
mineral, apatite, that is ground into powder, dissolved in acid and further processed.
Apatite rock contains radium, radioactive lead 210 and polonium 210. The radioactivity
of common chemical fertilizer can be verified with a Geiger-Mueller counter and an
open sack of everyday 13-13-13 type of fertilizer (or any other chemical fertilizer
high in phosphate content). (4)

Conservative estimates put the level of radiation absorbed
by a pack-and-a-half a day smoker at the equivalent of 300
chest X-rays every year. (5) The Office of Radiation, Chemical
& Biological Safety at Michigan State University report that the
radiation level for the same smoker was as high as 800 chest
X-rays per year (6). Another author argues that a typical nicotine
addict might be getting the equivalent of almost 22,000 chest X-rays
per year. (7) US Surgeon General C. Everett Koop stated in 1990
that tobacco radiation is probably responsible for most of tobacco
-related cancer. (8)"

So the obvious question is, why don't our govt.s ban this fertilizer for tobacco growers?
And my answer is, our govt.s don't have the power we think they do.

[Azure]

Another update...

http://www.hindu.com/2006/11/29/stor...2903451600.htm

LONDON: In a new twist to the police investigations into the mysterious death of the former KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko here last week, traces of the radioactive material, polonium 210, have been found in the London offices of the controversial Russian tycoon Boris Berezovsky.
It is the same substance that is suspected to have caused the poisoning which killed Litvinenko, a former employee of Mr. Berezovsky and his close ally in his campaign against the Russian Government.
Mr. Berezovsky was reported to be shaken as his offices in the fashionable Mayfair area were sealed off after the discovery of what the police described as a "significant quantity'' of polonium 210.

I looove Google news...

[jolinar of malkshor]

Mystery ailment fells Russian government critic

Looks like Putin is at it again.

A former Russian leader who has criticized the current regime and whose daughter is an anti-government activist is recovering in a Moscow hospital from a mysterious ailment

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/1...aidar-ill.html

[I-Hate-Hulse]

A bit off thread here, but check out the 2nd photo of Putin:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6177531.stm

Apparently, we're all doomed because Batman now works for Putin and the Russian Defence Ministry. Either that or he's actually at the Bacardi factory....