My FIX for the CFL

[burn_baby_burn]

I don't want to ruffle any feathers of the CFL fans on here. I love football, I eat and sleep it. But I never watch the CFL. Never have. Grew up with it in my backyard and I have never been to a game or watched an entire game on TV. Yet I have NFL Sunday Ticket and try to get to an NFL game every year. If the CFL can't attract football fans in its own back yard? How can it survive?

One of the reasons I don't watch (and I am not poking fun, I am just trying to give an honest opinion) is the rules and size of the field. Who coudn't catch a TD in that end zone. It is the size of a cow pasture. And I really can't stand the three downs. A short run, an incomplete pass, and a punt. That isn't much fun to watch. Not having to have both feet inbounds on a reception also takes the skill and drama out of a side line catch.

Maybe somebody like me would be interested if the CFL had rules more like American football. I know that people like how the CFL is unique and they don't want to copy the Americans. But isn't the CFL game just a copy cat of the American game with a few "odd ball rules" (quoting Lisa Simpson)? I can watch high school football in Montana, but I can't watch CFL football. Sad.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I don't want to ruffle any feathers of the CFL fans on here. I love football, I eat and sleep it. But I never watch the CFL. Never have. Grew up with it in my backyard and I have never been to a game or watched an entire game on TV. Yet I have NFL Sunday Ticket and try to get to an NFL game every year. If the CFL can't attract football fans in its own back yard? How can it survive?

One of the reasons I don't watch (and I am not poking fun, I am just trying to give an honest opinion) is the rules and size of the field. Who coudn't catch a TD in that end zone. It is the size of a cow pasture. And I really can't stand the three downs. A short run, an incomplete pass, and a punt. That isn't much fun to watch. Not having to have both feet inbounds on a reception also takes the skill and drama out of a side line catch.

Maybe somebody like me would be interested if the CFL had rules more like American football. I know that people like how the CFL is unique and they don't want to copy the Americans. But isn't the CFL game just a copy cat of the American game with a few "odd ball rules" (quoting Lisa Simpson)? I can watch high school football in Montana, but I can't watch CFL football. Sad.

Hit the nail on the head. I'm going to be trying much harder to make it to an Eagles game next year than I am a Stamps game.

[worth]

The field is that size because it dates back to rugby. When Canadians started to play football at McGill, the field was the same size as a rugby field. That is what we know as canadian football. In the US, they didn't have a full size rugby field. they had what we now know as an NFL sized field. That's how the field size happened. It wasn't like teh field size was changed to be different from the American game or anything.

Just a question, but if you've never been to a game or watched it on TV, then isn't that your own fault for not being attracted to the game? I mean, the CFL isn't going to get any fans if someone doesn't take a chance and watch a few games. And then take another chance and buy a ticket to their local team.

I doubt that if you watched a game today that you'd enjoy it. You have already set yourself into a predisposed position based on what you said in your post. So i would bet that 99% if you wantched a game you wouldn't like it. And thats fine, thats for you to decide. But I grew up watching the game and I love it, and may like me did.

And, really the CFL isn't a copycat of the American game. I believe the first forward pass was in Canada. Both US and Canadian football was played for a long while with no forward passes. The differences in rules are how different people evolved the game.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

...... size of the field. Who coudn't catch a TD in that end zone. It is the size of a cow pasture. And I really can't stand the three downs. A short run, an incomplete pass, and a punt. That isn't much fun to watch.

I quote this because I find it funny. Not "ha-ha" but odd funny. You and many other people make the same comment, but say two opposite things in the same breath. To folks like you I ask; which is it? Is it an easy league or is it hard?

Myself, I've switched over to preferring NFL over CFL. But I still enjoy the CFL.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by worth

The field is that size because it dates back to rugby. When Canadians started to play football at McGill, the field was the same size as a rugby field. That is what we know as canadian football. In the US, they didn't have a full size rugby field. they had what we now know as an NFL sized field. That's how the field size happened. It wasn't like teh field size was changed to be different from the American game or anything.

Just a question, but if you've never been to a game or watched it on TV, then isn't that your own fault for not being attracted to the game? I mean, the CFL isn't going to get any fans if someone doesn't take a chance and watch a few games. And then take another chance and buy a ticket to their local team.

I doubt that if you watched a game today that you'd enjoy it. You have already set yourself into a predisposed position based on what you said in your post. So i would bet that 99% if you wantched a game you wouldn't like it. And thats fine, thats for you to decide. But I grew up watching the game and I love it, and may like me did.

And, really the CFL isn't a copycat of the American game. I believe the first forward pass was in Canada. Both US and Canadian football was played for a long while with no forward passes. The differences in rules are how different people evolved the game.

well said worth. if someone grows up watching the nfl because maybe their parents watch it they would get used to the rules and think any other rules are wrong, i grew up watching the cfl and rules that are different such as 4 downs, 40 second timeclocks, fair catch and no touchbacks seem wrong or not as good to me as they are different from the game i watch and detract from the enjoyment of a game IMO. as worth said canadian's started turning rugby into football first, they both came from rugby and some rules were changed differently and the americans have changed the game away from rugby more but maybe football wouldnt exist if the canadians hadnt shown the americans there game way back in the 1800s. u can see more nfl games on tv becuase there are more teams so there is plenty of football to be watched, but we also have the cfl in our own backyard. the cfl isnt as hyped and if you choose not to watch it you arent going to become a fan of it but you are probably pretty set on american rules so theres a good chance you wont like it, but maybe you will, there are alot of americans(alot from baltimore at least) that enjoy the canadian version of football.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I quote this because I find it funny. Not "ha-ha" but odd funny. You and many other people make the same comment, but say two opposite things in the same breath. To folks like you I ask; which is it? Is it an easy league or is it hard?

Myself, I've switched over to preferring NFL over CFL. But I still enjoy the CFL.

It's both. It should be that easy in the CFL but it's not because of the skill level of the players. That's why you gets guys who burn up the CFL and as soon as they do they head down South.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I quote this because I find it funny. Not "ha-ha" but odd funny. You and many other people make the same comment, but say two opposite things in the same breath. To folks like you I ask; which is it? Is it an easy league or is it hard?

Myself, I've switched over to preferring NFL over CFL. But I still enjoy the CFL.

for sure, bottom line is that if either league were easy, we would be playing...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

well said worth. if someone grows up watching the nfl because maybe their parents watch it they would get used to the rules and think any other rules are wrong, i grew up watching the cfl and rules that are different such as 4 downs, 40 second timeclocks, fair catch and no touchbacks seem wrong or not as good to me as they are different from the game i watch and detract from the enjoyment of a game IMO. as worth said canadian's started turning rugby into football first, they both came from rugby and some rules were changed differently and the americans have changed the game away from rugby more but maybe football wouldnt exist if the canadians hadnt shown the americans there game way back in the 1800s. u can see more nfl games on tv becuase there are more teams so there is plenty of football to be watched, but we also have the cfl in our own backyard. the cfl isnt as hyped and if you choose not to watch it you arent going to become a fan of it but you are probably pretty set on american rules so theres a good chance you wont like it, but maybe you will, there are alot of americans(alot from baltimore at least) that enjoy the canadian version of football.

Wrong. I grew up watching CFL, my cousin started 12 years for the Stamps and I only got into NFL about 6 years ago. I'm a way bigger NFL fan.

[worth]

rubecube, i'm sure calgaryrocks was talking in general terms, not absolutes.

On the topic of NFL players being superior to CFL players, I bring up this column, which I have posted before on the other topic we had about CFL vs NFL.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/USACanadian

As the blog states, do you really believe players like Pinball and Gizmo are inferior compared to players in the NFL? They would not be given a second look in the NFL because of their size and the style of game they play. The NFL caters to a different type of player, which is fine, but to say CFL players are inferior to NFL players is a bit of a stertch, and to tell you the truth, an insult to the players who put their whole hearts into playing football no matter where they play.

[calgaryrocks]

well my response was more in general or at least more geared toward what bbb said. you maybe have a bit different background then rubecube. i guess some people like the strategy, hype, big money of the nfl more then the cfl in which it is easier to know and see all the teams and the players are allowed to be more creative on the field with more room to move. the more open field does allow for more offence but it also makes the defending more tough. how many players have ripped up the cfl before going to the nfl, or came from the nfl and ripped up the cfl? the cfl game is different and requires a different style of player as well as less memorization of playbooks and more quick thinking. a qb can have a good memory but not be as quick thinking might be a star in the nfl but not in the cfl. the skillset is different, niether league is significantly harder or easier to play although it is harder to make the nfl as the salaries are higher so mistakes are more scrutinized, qbs need to be taller to see out of the pocket as it is easier to roll out in the cfl to see downfield and there are more politics preventing minorities from being succesfull(this includes coaching)

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by worth

rubecube, i'm sure calgaryrocks was talking in general terms, not absolutes.

On the topic of NFL players being superior to CFL players, I bring up this column, which I have posted before on the other topic we had about CFL vs NFL.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/USACanadian

As the blog states, do you really believe players like Pinball and Gizmo are inferior compared to players in the NFL? They would not be given a second look in the NFL because of their size and the style of game they play. The NFL caters to a different type of player, which is fine, but to say CFL players are inferior to NFL players is a bit of a stertch, and to tell you the truth, an insult to the players who put their whole hearts into playing football no matter where they play.

I would venture to say that Eric Metcalf and Brian Mitchell were as good as any CFL KR. CFL QBs have to think more on their feet? I disagree because it's easier for CFL receivers to get open. The only reason it looks that way is because the O-lines are not exactly top notch in the CFL so the QBs have to scramble more. In the NFL QBs have to account for various complicated blitz packages and D-line shifts, stunts, twists, etc. Are you going to tell me a CFL QB does more adjusting from the beginning of a play than Peyton Manning or Mike Vick?

This article also goes on to say that NFL prototypes don't work in the CFL and gives examples like Tee Martin. Tee Martin is not a good QB in any league, not even NFL Europe. If you want to show me a premiere NFL QB who came up to the CFL and was atrocious then fine. The only really good example of this is not a QB, it's Ricky Williams. And who's to say he wouldn't have come on a bit more without the injuries?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

well my response was more in general or at least more geared toward what bbb said. you maybe have a bit different background then rubecube. i guess some people like the strategy, hype, big money of the nfl more then the cfl

I'm in Canada, the hype doesn't really affect me. It's the product on the field. But I'll give you that the more strategic game appeals to me.

how many players have ripped up the cfl before going to the nfl,

Dozens. Joe Theisman, Warren Moon, Doug Flutie, Jeff Garcia, Dave Dickenson, Matt Dominguez, Ricky Ray, Marc Boerigter, Mike Vanderjagt...

or came from the nfl and ripped up the cfl?

Nobody who would be considered a premiere player, with the exception of Ricky Williams. If you're ripping up the NFL, you don't go to the CFL.

the cfl game is different and requires a different style of player as well as less memorization of playbooks and more quick thinking.

Because the lack of top end talent on the field makes it more unpredictable, just like college ball. The superstars are few and far between unless you're one of the top end teams.

a qb can have a good memory but not be as quick thinking might be a star in the nfl but not in the cfl. the skillset is different, niether league is significantly harder or easier to play although it is harder to make the nfl as the salaries are higher so mistakes are more scrutinized, qbs need to be taller to see out of the pocket as it is easier to roll out in the cfl to see downfield

It's easier to roll out in the CFL because the linebackers and DBs have to drop into coverage more and can't chase down the QB.

and there are more politics preventing minorities from being succesfull(this includes coaching)

This is just ######ed. There are more black players in the NFL than white players.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by worth

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/USACanadian

Had to LOL at the last statement in this article.

If the NHL were to remove the red line, play on olympic sized ice and call penalties for obstruction, you would see personnel changes galore in the NHL. They would need different players. This may already be happening. The NHL may desire players who can be creative and fast rendering the large-bodied grinders less effective. What does everyone want to see? A different game requires different abilities. There are similarities and constants, but we cannot assume that differences relate to quality. Furthermoe, we cannot look at the salaries involved and expect that to be an accurate barometer of quality, it doesn't work.

[soulchoice]

Ricky Williams is a poor example to use. His offensive line in Toronto was horrendous. A running back is only as good as his line in front of him, unless your Barry Sanders(Lions o-line was horrible). Put Ricky on a team with a decent o-line and he would have ripped up the CFL I am sure.

I believe someone on here said that there could be a 50 percent ratio of Canadians on the roster. Wow, that would make the league even worse than it is quality wise. It would eventually turn into a league with is a little better than CIAU ball, which itself is unbearable to watch.

[Cheese]

When I first got into football in the 60s, Canadian ball or CFL was bigger than its American brethern. We used to get some big name players from American colleges, and our pay scale was equal to or better than a lot of the American teams. It wasnt until 1970 that the AFL joined the NFL...I think. Regardless...the USA made the NFL its game at that time...the TV networks picked it up as Baseball self destructed and the owners turned the league into what it is today. Now its all glitz and bling bling...some good games, some real stinkers...same in the CFL. The CFL has great passing action and lighter, faster players...not to mention a roster half the size of the NFLs. The NFL has the beef and players who are drafted just to play special teams.
Two different animals now...I prefer CFL after Labor day...the rest is simply catching up from a lack of exhibition games. The CFL also doesnt promote itself enough, and due to the lack of teams cant put on a good all star game...all detriments. We need another 6 teams at least.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Now its all glitz and bling bling...some good games, some real stinkers...same in the CFL.

I'm glad you added that. One of the worst arguments in this debate is "CFL games are more exciting because they're a lot closer." Well of course you're going to have more close games when you only put on 4 games every week and there are only 8 teams to spread a lot of talent around. I would venture there are probably at least 4 close games in the NFL every week too.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I quote this because I find it funny. Not "ha-ha" but odd funny. You and many other people make the same comment, but say two opposite things in the same breath. To folks like you I ask; which is it? Is it an easy league or is it hard?

Myself, I've switched over to preferring NFL over CFL. But I still enjoy the CFL.

I know, in the NFL you get four downs and in the CFL you get three. I have had CFL fans argue with me that who coudn't get a first down with four downs. Or you only need to average 2.5 yards per down to get a first down in the NFL (that would be pretty gutsy going for it on 4th down everytime). I still prefer the drama of third down.

As for the size of the endzone. It just seems harder to catch a pass in that endzone in the NFL than in the huge endzone in the CFL. How many highlight reel catches do we see every sunday from guys like Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Steve Smith? They jump up grab the ball at the back of the endzone and just get two feet down before they get creamed. Takes alot of skill and practice to pull something like that off. I'm sure there are CFL recievers that can do that. But they don't have to and it detracts from the excitment of the game in my opinion.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Ricky Williams is a poor example to use. His offensive line in Toronto was horrendous. A running back is only as good as his line in front of him, unless your Barry Sanders(Lions o-line was horrible). Put Ricky on a team with a decent o-line and he would have ripped up the CFL I am sure.

I believe someone on here said that there could be a 50 percent ratio of Canadians on the roster. Wow, that would make the league even worse than it is quality wise. It would eventually turn into a league with is a little better than CIAU ball, which itself is unbearable to watch.

williams prob isnt a good example to use, there could be many reasons why williams didnt do what nfl fans expected him to do including: too high expectations(lack of respect for the players in the cfl), time out of football, poor offensive line(a truly great running back will make holes like pringle or sanders) i dont think you can compare it until we see how ricky does in miami. i really dont believe he would have ripped up the cfl if hed been playing for a team like winnipeg, tho he may have had a chance at the running title had he played for a team like winnipeg, roberts is an awsome running back tho. warren moon is the only player who really ripped up the cfl and he continued that dominance in the nfl. he had a good team around him though and i wonder how he would have done playing for a lesser team then edmonton. afterall football is a team game and you can put a great player on a bad team and he wont look so good or a bad player on a good team and he will look better.

Joe Theisman(ill take your word for it, i wasnt alive back then), Warren Moon see above but ill take that, Doug Flutie(great team to play with in the cfl didnt rip it up but was star and the cfl gave him a chance, Jeff Garcia(i wouldnt call playing for 2 years with a very talented stamps team ripping it up), Dave Dickenson ripping it up? ok he's built for the cfl game, and when given time he is great at scanning for open recievers, albeit injury prone, Matt Dominguez(ripping it up??? hardly), Ricky Ray( im pretty sure you would have to make the playoffs to be ripping it up, but as mentioned before it is a team game), Marc Boerigter(he played 2 years...we'll see how he does this year), Mike Vanderjagt...ok add john ryan( a canadian) to that list i guess. im not sure what that proves though, any player who is a star is going to want to go play for a team in a league they grew up watching and where the media cant stop falling over it self to get more coverage plus the money. opposite works for why no nfl players rip up the nfl then go to the cfl, but any players that have played in both say that they enjoyed the game up here. none of these players made the cfl look bad if nothing else they gave the cfl more publicity and made the game more entertaining. the cfl is a different game then the nfl and some of those players are built more for hte cfl while some like moon are just amazing athletes that are good at both. your right there isnt as much top end talent in the cfl(obviously the so called top end talent trys to go the the nfl, this year was not the most exciting to watch) but yes this does create more unpredictablility like college ball and imo makes it more fun to watch.
It's easier to roll out in the CFL because the linebackers and DBs have to drop into coverage more and can't chase down the QB.
yep and that allows the qb to create more if he is talented(like ricky ray) and cant find a reciever, also makes fore more unpredictability and quick thinking is needed.
yes there prob are more black players in the nfl then white, but maybe not in the qb position. i guess it was more of an issue 10-20 years ago. guys like warren moon never would have gotten a chance in the nfl if they hadnt come up to the cfl and its not becuase of thier talent. not so much today but before monday 2 out of 8 coaches in the cfl were black and how many in the nfl?? you can probably tell me better then i can guess so nevermind i guess.




the cfl does have the import rule which may lower the talent a little, but if they didnt have that rule all those players from the states would come and take more positions. its hard for a country the size of canada which is primarly a hockey country to develop players to keep up with the massive population and passion for football that is in the states. if cfl teams dont have many canadians on them it doesnt feel as canadian and canadian kids wont grow up watching it and playing the game if they have no hope in making the cfl, and right now there are more and more canadian players developed. for example the qbs in the cfl are all american and as a result of canadians not being given a chance canadian kids dont want to play quarterback so we get less and less quality canadian players in that position. whereas canadian positions in the cfl like lineman, kickers and defensive players have more canadians develop even though its harder for those players to make it in the nfl becuase of the different style of game and less star attention that a qb like garcia got when he went to the nfl. canadian players is what makes the cfl great and if the cfl was all american players it wouldnt be as popular.
i agree that the cfl doesnt promote itself as much and would love if it did but the resources and sport culture in our country just dont allow for that, as well as having more teams as you need stadiums to play in and the government is nowhere near as happy as in the states to give money to anything having to do with sports unless its the olympics or commonwealth games.

[burn_baby_burn]

^^^

Black coaches in the NFL:

Oakland
Arizona
Kansas City
Indianapolis
Chicago
Cincinati
Cleveland

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

^^^

Black coaches in the NFL:

Oakland
Arizona
Kansas City
Indianapolis
Chicago
Cincinati
Cleveland

did not know that but was wondering. thanks bbb