Kramer pulls a Mel Gibson

[Dion]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Depending on who says it and in what content. Yes I agree that the remarks that Kramer made were of a racist nature....but just because he said it doen't make him a racist. A lot of times people say things in the heat of the moment, things they don't might not believe but only say it because it is the easiest thing to say at the time and it hurts.

How many times have you said something in anger but didn't mean what you said?

I disagree, his comments do make him a racist. Like I said earlier a persons beliefs often show up in moments of anger. Another comedian in the same situation would have said something different.

Yes I have said things in anger. However I have never made racist comments about another group of people.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Table 5

anyone who thinks that only white people are racist really needs to wake up from their fairytale dream. blacks, asians, east indians etc are just as bad....sometimes they are even worse. Japan has to be one of the most outwardly racist countries in the world, and it's pretty much generally accepted. but i guess thats ok, cause whitey is bringing them down too....

there are idiots spewing hate all over, it's not segregated to one type of people.

quoted for truth

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by arsenal

All we are seeing is Richards go off. We have no idea what was said before to cause him to go off on the hecklers. Without context, it just looks like a crazy man throwing racial slurs.
We are missing the 5-10 minutes before the rant. Who knows, the hecklers could have been saying things 10x worse, and the rant being fully justified.

So somehow a deplorable racist rant is justified because someone heckled him?

Did this thread somehow time travel back forty years ago?

Some of the comments in this thread are downright shameful.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by arsenal

All we are seeing is Richards go off. We have no idea what was said before to cause him to go off on the hecklers. Without context, it just looks like a crazy man throwing racial slurs.
We are missing the 5-10 minutes before the rant. Who knows, the hecklers could have been saying things 10x worse, and the rant being fully justified.

Doesnt matter what they say, nothing justifies what he said. Two wrongs dont make a right, esspecially when the second wrong is committed by a celebrity in the public eye.

But further to that point I dont think they were saying anything to bad, just heckling the guy. He even made the comment on the video "You two have been talking and talking the whole time" and "thats what happens when you interupt the white man"

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by arsenal

All we are seeing is Richards go off. We have no idea what was said before to cause him to go off on the hecklers. Without context, it just looks like a crazy man throwing racial slurs.
We are missing the 5-10 minutes before the rant. Who knows, the hecklers could have been saying things 10x worse, and the rant being fully justified.

I'd say it's pretty much impossible for that to be "justified". What exactly could someone say to you to make you react like that?

Judging by the reaction of the rest of the crowd they didn't seem to think it was "justified" either.

The only excuse for that kind of behaviour is some sort of mental malfunction and it looks like he might have had one.

"They might have said something nasty before the camera turned on" certainly doesn't excuse anything.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Hakan

So somehow a deplorable racist rant is justified because someone heckled him?

Did this thread somehow time travel back forty years ago?

Some of the comments in this thread are downright shameful.

I was going to say the same thing. I shake my head in disbelief.

[Frank the Tank]

Man, I just watched the video clip again. Thats just NUTS. I can't beleive he didn't get jumped on his way out and killed.

And as far as the debate over the use of the "n word", there is only one way to take what he said and that is the cracker, Alabama circa 1930's way. He meant it as a racial slur, plain and simple.

[liamenator]

I am not sure what was more disturbing... Richard's rant or the fact that there were actually people cheering him on at the start of it. (Particularly the comment regarding the fork).

But anyway... It was insane to watch. And to watch him pace around, trying to justify himself.. He said something about "There are still those words", implying to me that he realized (when every started to get up and leave) the hole he had dug himself and tried to work the rant into his "act"; give it a context of "well they heckled me so I heckled them. It's the same thing", before finally giving up.

But, in no possible way was it even remotely apropriate to be throwing around terms like he was throwing around if the 2 guys were only heckling his act.

The only thing I can think of that would be a reasonable explanation for his going off the deep end would be a combination of mental problems and the hecklers, I don't know... making reference to Richards' Jewish heritage in an overtly derogatory fashion or something (at least I think he's Jewish)... But I have a hard time believing that was the case.

As far as the word itself goes? I agree that a certain context to its usage is needed to define a person as overtly "Racist"; however in my experience almost every person of African-American decent I know or have come across finds any use of it as offensive... Implying you may not be defined as a racist per se in using the term, but you'll still be labeled as offensive.

And I agree with that sentiment. It is possible to have conversations and/or debates such as this one without using the word itself - if it upsets people (which it quite obviously does), why bother with it?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Dion

I disagree, his comments do make him a racist. Like I said earlier a persons beliefs often show up in moments of anger. Another comedian in the same situation would have said something different.

Yes I have said things in anger. However I have never made racist comments about another group of people.

And did you not really mean it? Like I said, the comments were of a racist nature, that doesn't make him racist. I would be more willing to call him racist if he came out and said these things in a clear mind.

[Hakan]

the N word is a word that has been reclaimed by african american people in the United States. Instead of a term used to deride and de-humanize blacks, african americans use it as a term of empowerment and comraderie. There's a wealth of scholarship on reclaiming once derogatory terms. It's a way for minorities to resist and engage their traditional struggle against a majority.

That does not give whites the authority to use it in any way unless permission is explicitly given by a group of companions. The power dynamics are still very real between black and white that when a white says 'n-word' to black its genealogy is one of persecution and racism.

Once again there are many many many books and articles on this from top scholars and anti-racist activists.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Man, I just watched the video clip again. Thats just NUTS. I can't beleive he didn't get jumped on his way out and killed.

With the publicity this thing is getting he better be dam careful from now on, I would think there would be plently of afro-americans who wouldnt hesitate beating him down if they see him on the streets.

[Jayems]

Am i the only one who finds the irony in all of this:

"That was uncalled for! You can't call me a n***er you ######ing cracker-ass cracker honky"

None of it is ok, i just think its funny they respond with other racial insults as well, or is it socially acceptable to call a white guy a cracker or honky?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

And did you not really mean it? Like I said, the comments were of a racist nature, that doesn't make him racist. I would be more willing to call him racist if he came out and said these things in a clear mind.

I can't believe you are justifying his actions.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

And did you not really mean it? Like I said, the comments were of a racist nature, that doesn't make him racist. I would be more willing to call him racist if he came out and said these things in a clear mind.

What celebrity has come out in the last 10 years and said something racist with a clear mind?

It would never happen. Yes, these things were said in the heat of the moment, but they had to be there somewhere in his head for them to come out.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

And did you not really mean it? Like I said, the comments were of a racist nature, that doesn't make him racist. I would be more willing to call him racist if he came out and said these things in a clear mind.

I would have to disagree.

If he had said in response to the heckling something along the lines of: "Man those N***ers are always looking for attention" that would be a racist comment, but I wouldnt call him a racist.

But to directly call someone a N***er over and over again after getting angry, I tend to think he just showed his true colours. My point is furthered by his other comments like the "50 years ago....etc" comment and the "thats what happens when you interupt the white man" comment. If he lashed out and said the word once I may agree with you, but he said it 6-7 times with long spells of time in between.

[hah]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Well this anwsers my question, you clearly do not understand his comedy.

Anti Semetic? Did you know that Sasha Baron Cohen is.....well.....JEWISH?

As for his other "rantings" if you think those are his views, or views he is immposing on citizens of Kazakhstan I advise you to watch the movie again(if you have even watched it).

The only thing you could possibly say about the guy is that perhaps "Borat" spews anti-americanism.

Borat=ok Kramer=not ok

Did Sacha Cohen tell the owners of the B&B he was Jewish?

Most of the Genreal public do not know he is a Jew when they are laughing at his rantings.

You are upset with Kramer but Borat is ok?

[J pold]

Originally Posted by Tower

And no other race knows what that is like? Classic.
.

No in fact no other race knows what it is like to have the word Nig*er used against them believe it or not, and yes all other races have are pinned with racist terms as well but none of those terms have nearly the same meaning or history connected to them especially in north America

Once it is used in everyday life. By anyone, not just the race that is saying it.
Hence if a black person says nig*er as in

"What's up nig*er!" or "ni*ga" (is that wrong too? The fact that it's spelled wrong?)

Once this has been done, in my opinion and many other that I have spoken to. It's no longer an issue. It must be completely stopped or ingnore it if it bothers you. That's it. That's all.

I am not saying that the use of the word is right or wrong when it is used by the African American population, what I am saying is that myself being a white male have no right to say wheatear or not it is. I know it is wrong if I where to say it or any another non African American person but I have never have had that word used against me, and I will never know what it is like to have that word used against me. There is a tremendous amount of debate in the black community as to whether or not it is right for them to use that word but I am not a part of that debate and neither is any other person who is not black

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by hah

Borat=ok Kramer=not ok

Did Sacha Cohen tell the owners of the B&B he was Jewish?

Most of the Genreal public do not know he is a Jew when they are laughing at his rantings.

You are upset with Kramer but Borat is ok?

Michael Richards wasn't playing a character. Sacha Cohen was.

I really have no clue what point you are trying to make here. The comparison is absurd.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by hah

Borat=ok Kramer=not ok

Did Sacha Cohen tell the owners of the B&B he was Jewish?

Most of the Genreal public do not know he is a Jew when they are laughing at his rantings.

You are upset with Kramer but Borat is ok?

What are you talking about?

Clealry you cannot decifer a movie from reality and comedy from hatred, and even more clear is that Cohen's satire is miles over your head.

[Burninator]

So will this acutally ruin his career? (whatever is left of it). Hollywood and the fans seem to forgive easily and forget quickly. There seems to be standard formula to follow when celebrities get caught doing something stupid.

1) Issue apology
3) Say it was out of character for you, you were caught up with emotion etc.
3) Get other celebrities to vouch for you.
4) Come out this some addiction or problem previously unknown.
5) Lay low for a while.
6) Make triuphment return, with all forgotten.

This seems to be the path Mel Gibson is taking. Everyone got really mad at him when it happened, but now Hollywood has moved on. He is coming out a another movie. Guess we'll have to wait and see if people are actually mad and won't see it (doubt it). So far I can't really tell of any fallout for Mel Gibson.