Why is France called an Ally of the US?

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by peter12

No, no, no. Believing something and refusing to provide good, solid, and logical arguments to back it up is prerequisite for being brainless. Also the constant mockery and insults are really not helping your case any.

Funny, that's the first thing I said about you in this thread...

[White Doors]

YOU are funny Red Mile!

HAHAHA!!!

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by White Doors

YOU are funny Red Mile!

HAHAHA!!!

Thanks WhiteDoors, I wish I could say the same about you.

Unfortunately, I just think you are a confused, pompus ass.

[White Doors]

Confused? Nah.

Pompus? at this point adn with you? for sure!

[peter12]

This is my question to you, if you are so anti-big L Liberal, and have such a negative view of Mulroney, who were you supporting in the early 90's? The NDP? The Bloc? By your posts, that would seem contradictory, so you must've been supporting the PC's... and now you're supporting Harper. Thanks for ruining my country, AGAIN!

You are clueless. There were other political parties in the early 90s. Ever heard of Reform?

[JimmytheT]

I am not a partisan ideologue like a few seem to be in this thread. I have a very pragmatic view of political landscape and which political party I chose to vote for.

For example I agreed much more with the Provincial Liberal platform and thus voted liberal in the provincial election. Prior to that election (had I been voting age (missed it by a couple months)) I would have voted for the PCs.

Federally, however, I cannot agree with any Liberal platform that has been around since the days of Lester B. Pearson (my favorite historical Liberal PM being Wilfred Laurier). Though the ruling parties at anytime in Canada tend to have policies that favour Ontario and Quebec (due to demographics and historical factors), the Liberals have had a ultra Ontario-Quebecois Centric attitude since the days of Trudeau.

Red Mile Style, you say the the PC tories ruined this country with huge budget deficits, however you seemingly forget who started the "fiscal spending like a drunken sailor" in the first place: it was Pierre Trudeau. I agree with some of Pierre Trudeau's social policies surrounding just society, like the gov't staying out of Canadian's bedrooms etc, however his fiscal policies created a fiscal nightmare that the PCs of the 80s only inherited (albeit did not improve matters much).
Under Trudeau, you could volunteerily quit your job and still receive Employment Insurance; something seems to be wrong with this picture.

You also either have forgotten or simply were too young or not alive yet during Trudeau's reign (I am in the not alive category myself). However, when you look back at Trudeau's extreme Ontario-Quebecentric policies during his tenure as PM, you will see how he screwed Alberta something awful. His comments regarding Western Canadians showed his disdain for the people west of Ontario, and his actions against Alberta, namely the NEP, showed that it was okay to steal from any province not named Ontario or Quebec.

My point is, do not be so quick to say Mulroney and the Tories dragged this country into fiscal chaos without first looking at the fiscal situation of the previous government in power.

As for my voting preferences, they will change as the platforms suit my family's needs and what I perceive are in the best interests of the nation as well. The Conservatives had a platform that agreed with me the most (though I do not like bringing the gay marriage debate back to parliament as I think it is ridiculous for a gov't to tell you who you can and cannot marry) the last time around so I voted for them. I probably will never vote for the NDP however as long as their platforms look nearly identical to Trudeau-era Liberal platforms.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by JimmytheT

I am not a partisan ideologue like a few seem to be in this thread. I have a very pragmatic view of political landscape and which political party I chose to vote for.

For example I agreed much more with the Provincial Liberal platform and thus voted liberal in the provincial election. Prior to that election (had I been voting age (missed it by a couple months)) I would have voted for the PCs.

Federally, however, I cannot agree with any Liberal platform that has been around since the days of Lester B. Pearson (my favorite historical Liberal PM being Wilfred Laurier). Though the ruling parties at anytime in Canada tend to have policies that favour Ontario and Quebec (due to demographics and historical factors), the Liberals have had a ultra Ontario-Quebecois Centric attitude since the days of Trudeau.

Red Mile Style, you say the the PC tories ruined this country with huge budget deficits, however you seemingly forget who started the "fiscal spending like a drunken sailor" in the first place: it was Pierre Trudeau. I agree with some of Pierre Trudeau's social policies surrounding just society, like the gov't staying out of Canadian's bedrooms etc, however his fiscal policies created a fiscal nightmare that the PCs of the 80s only inherited (albeit did not improve matters much).
Under Trudeau, you could volunteerily quit your job and still receive Employment Insurance; something seems to be wrong with this picture.

You also either have forgotten or simply were too young or not alive yet during Trudeau's reign (I am in the not alive category myself). However, when you look back at Trudeau's extreme Ontario-Quebecentric policies during his tenure as PM, you will see how he screwed Alberta something awful. His comments regarding Western Canadians showed his disdain for the people west of Ontario, and his actions against Alberta, namely the NEP, showed that it was okay to steal from any province not named Ontario or Quebec.

My point is, do not be so quick to say Mulroney and the Tories dragged this country into fiscal chaos without first looking at the fiscal situation of the previous government in power.

As for my voting preferences, they will change as the platforms suit my family's needs and what I perceive are in the best interests of the nation as well. The Conservatives had a platform that agreed with me the most (though I do not like bringing the gay marriage debate back to parliament as I think it is ridiculous for a gov't to tell you who you can and cannot marry) the last time around so I voted for them. I probably will never vote for the NDP however as long as their platforms look nearly identical to Trudeau-era Liberal platforms.

Just so we get things straight, as I stated before, I am not a Liberal supporter. They are the lesser of the two evils, but they are not my party of choice.

[JimmytheT]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Just so we get things straight, as I stated before, I am not a Liberal supporter. They are the lesser of the two evils, but they are not my party of choice.

My main point direct towards yourself was to not presume that Mulrooney created the fiscal chaos that desperately needed to be fixed. Trudeau created it and Mulrooney simply perpetuated it.

Mulrooney, to his credit, did however abolish the NEP

[FireFly]

What does any of this have to do with France being an ally of the US?

[Moderator]

Watch the name calling folks, or will start issuing suspensions.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

When Harper won the election

ahh, thanks for the reminder. I hadn't seen a Molson commercial in awhile to remind me that the only way to be Canadian, is not to not be American.

Agree with their foreign policy or not, there are two facts that you and most others should appreciate.

1) Who are we most dependant on as a trade partner?
2) If Canada was ever attacked, who would be there to save us?

Cretien was one of the worst leaders of all time .. having aids that could openly slander our next door neighbour.

We have become one of the worst next door neighbours of all time.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

ahh, thanks for the reminder. I hadn't seen a Molson commercial in awhile to remind me that the only way to be Canadian, is not to not be American.

Agree with their foreign policy or not, there are two facts that you and most others should appreciate.

1) Who are we most dependant on as a trade partner?
2) If Canada was ever attacked, who would be there to save us?

Cretien was one of the worst leaders of all time .. having aids that could openly slander our next door neighbour.

We have become one of the worst next door neighbours of all time.

Indeed. The Americans have been nothing but gracious towards us Canadians at all times and on all issues, but here we are staying out of their well-thought-out wars and criticizing their foreign policy decisions. What a bunch of ingrates.

It's not like an American politician would ever say anything bad about Canada.

[Flames in 07]

their aids don't in front of micophones.

They negotiate issues hard, the way any country should nothing wrong with that. If they have leverage on something, they will use it, the same way any country would. But it doesn't change the fact that we are neighbours ... and genally ungracious ones.

[RougeUnderoos]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "aids", but some Yank politicians aren't exactly secretive about their contempt for Canada.

"Can Canada really be considered our 'friend' anymore? As someone whose family comes from Canada, a country I grew up loving as a child, it pains me to ask the question. That said, what other question can be asked when the Canadian government not only willingly allows Islamic terrorists into their country, but does nothing to stop them from entering our nation."
- Former Bob Dole press secretary Douglas MacKinnon in a column in The Washington Times, December 16, 2005,


I don't have any quotes handy, but I know Hilary Clinton and a few other American politicians claimed (in front of microphones no less) that the 9/11 terrorists came from Canada, and that we nonchalantly let terrorists do whatever they want, and that we are to blame if they happen to get into the US.

Some Canadians have a strange notion of "neighbourliness" -- like they believe a good neighbour is one that pats his neighbour on the back when he runs over his foot with the lawnmower even after he's been warned by everyone else in town to be careful.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Indeed. The Americans have been nothing but gracious towards us Canadians at all times and on all issues, but here we are staying out of their well-thought-out wars and criticizing their foreign policy decisions. What a bunch of ingrates.

It's not like an American politician would ever say anything bad about Canada.

Sarcasm aside, I don't see why it has to be that way?

Neighbors can agree with each other without being in bed with each other. Neighbors can disagree without being each other's enemies. Why does it have to be one or the other?

[Flame On]

Why do I get the idea that some peoples idea of an ally is more of a Brokeback experience? i.e. bend over.

[Flames in 07]

"Bush is an ***hole" - Cretiens silly aids.

I'm not sure I get the lawnmower thing, but if it's about poor US foreign policy run by a texan who shoots first and aims second ... we aren't patting them on the back. we flip them off every chance we get. BTW, what's the answer to my two questions above? The fact is, Canada needs the US, in many ways ... like it or not it's a simple fact.

There is some mutual dependance but it's not symmetrical, we need them more than they need us. And all we can do is focus on everything negative, just like Molson taught us to.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Sarcasm aside, I don't see why it has to be that way?

Neighbors can agree with each other without being in bed with each other. Neighbors can disagree without being each other's enemies. Why does it have to be one or the other?

Exactly. It's like if something doesn't go our way we want to cry and take our ball home.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Neighbors can disagree without being each other's enemies. Why does it have to be one or the other?

It doesn't have to be that way and it isn't that way. If members of a political party (since flushed from power, incidentally) criticize the sitting government of another state, however crudely they do it, it doesn't mean they are an enemy. You would be hard-pressed to find even the dimmest Republican (or Liberal for that matter) that believe the gang on the other side of the 49th is an enemy.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

It doesn't have to be that way and it isn't that way. If members of a political party (since flushed from power, incidentally) criticize the sitting government of another state, however crudely they do it, it doesn't mean they are an enemy. You would be hard-pressed to find even the dimmest Republican (or Liberal for that matter) that believe the gang on the other side of the 49th is an enemy.

Enemies is a strong word. lack of mutual respect is better.

What gets me the most is how people seem to think Harper is a US puppet, for simply trying to reinstate normal relations. Thanks to Cretien and Canadian pop culture, (if there is such a thing) it's now cool to hate everything that is American and simply looking to have a normal relationship with a country on the other side of one of the largest borders on earth means that Harper is a US pawn.