CIA asked to fix Iraqi election???

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by CaramonLS@Sep 30 2004, 12:24 AM
Sure cow... when the offical Iraqi ballot is released we shall see how many of them are "extremists" and "not US friendly".

And when the next leader is elected whether by the CIA or the people... we will see.

See you at the finish line then.

An early hint of how you might see candidates selected has actually already occurred in Iraq. Chaotic, flawed, animated. . . . .

The best descriptions are at the bottom of the linked article, including:

For weeks, at caucuses across the country, thousands of Iraqis competed for election to the conference, and for the say that would give them in shaping the country's political future. A two-week postponement of the gathering, ordered in hopes of broadening participation, did not yield the hoped-for breakthroughs, particularly in persuading influential Sunni Muslim groups or al-Sadr, to abandon their boycott of the process.

Still, the turnout exceeded the goal of at least 1,000 delegates.

The focus on Najaf and al-Sadr delayed other business at the conference. The delegates were supposed to select a 100-member interim national assembly by Tuesday. By the end of the day Sunday, they had not even agreed on the rules by which members would be elected.

In speech after speech throughout the day, delegates called for an end to U.S. and Iraqi military operations against al-Sadr.

That's a pretty strange rubber stamp.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...MNGUB88JUQ1.DTL

A further description in the Guardian, including flaws

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...286157,00.html

And an Economist article describing the delegate selection process preceding the conference.

http://www.economist.com/displayStor...ory_id=2970708

Sorry but to be quite honest I don't think the US is going to pack up and leave, especially with all the money they are putting into constructing ways to get the Oil out of the ground.

What is Iraq going to do? Not sell oil? Its all they have. If I'm not mistaken, the USA was buying most of Saddam's oil under the disgraced UN Oil For Food program.

Cowperson

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 30 2004, 02:56 AM


What is Iraq going to do? Not sell oil? Its all they have. If I'm not mistaken, the USA was buying most of Saddam's oil under the disgraced UN Oil For Food program.

Cowperson

US pumping oil from Iraqi oilfields for the US > Iraqi's pumping oil for the US.

Yes the great Haliburton company currently being investigated for cheating the US government out of funds and overcharging them for certain things.

http://www.economist.com/displayStor...ory_id=2970708

This article says nothing about the January elections, just talks about an interm parliment for Iraq until January.

I'm seeing nothing about extremists being left on the ballot for the up coming elections...

So the entire election process is in disarray... whoop tee doo! So is the whole freaking country. That doesn't mean the CIA wont be active when the final ballots come out.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by CaramonLS+Sep 30 2004, 04:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaramonLS @ Sep 30 2004, 04:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson@Sep 30 2004, 02:56 AM


What is Iraq going to do? Not sell oil? Its all they have. If I'm not mistaken, the USA was buying most of Saddam's oil under the disgraced UN Oil For Food program.

Cowperson

US pumping oil from Iraqi oilfields for the US > Iraqi's pumping oil for the US.

Yes the great Haliburton company currently being investigated for cheating the US government out of funds and overcharging them for certain things.

http://www.economist.com/displayStor...ory_id=2970708

This article says nothing about the January elections, just talks about an interm parliment for Iraq until January.

I'm seeing nothing about extremists being left on the ballot for the up coming elections...

So the entire election process is in disarray... whoop tee doo! So is the whole freaking country. That doesn't mean the CIA wont be active when the final ballots come out. [/b][/quote]
I presented the articles as an example of Iraqi's selecting delegates for a national congress and then those delegates gathering at a political conference last month. Pretty straight forward.

The process, flawed and chaotic as it was, hardly looked controlled and should be roughly similar to what you will see leading up to ballot day in January.

If the entire country doesn't explode and disappear into a flaming pit before then.

US pumping oil from Iraqi oilfields for the US > Iraqi's pumping oil for the US.

Yes the great Haliburton company currently being investigated for cheating the US government out of funds and overcharging them for certain things.

Are you suggesting Iraqi oil is being sold for less than market right now and particularly sold to USA companies at less than market? Otherwise, what's the difference who its sold to?

The amusing thing about this entire insurrection thing is that every time they blow up a pipeline, they give Halliburton more work . . . . and to date the Halliburton bill has been paid courtesy of the USA taxpayer.

A story last week had Halliburton so embarrassed by the corrupt corporate culture of its subsidiary in Iraq, Kellogg Brown & Root, that its planning to sell it to get rid of the stench.

We can argue if Halliburton should have been selected for the Iraq contract but you can't really argue that Iraq badly needs its oil infrastructure upgraded nor can you argue that it needs the expertise of outside contracting to do it. Its either Halliburton or someone else but it has to be done.

Again, oil is the only commodity this sorry excuse for a country has. There's no choice but to sell it and in as vast quantities as it can muster given the cash it requires for upgrading everything from water plants to schools to transit, etc, etc. The same money Saddam got from the UN Oil For Food program he used to build palaces.

Cowperson

[RougeUnderoos]

Just for interest's sake...

I was out and about today and I noticed a fellow on the side of the road (Southland) selling flags and fuzzy blankets and such from a makeshift "booth".

Pretty normal stuff -- the blankets were your regular themes -- Spongebob Squarepants, Spiderman, maybe a Barbie or two. Flapping in the wind above were some Canadian flags, a Flames flag, a couple Jolly Rogers, a Canadian flag with a marijuana leaf instead of a maple leaf (shocking!). In the middle of it all (and this isn't shocking either but it was interesting, I thought) was an old-school, brand-new-looking Saddam-era Iraq flag with the stars and the "Allah Is Great" (or whatever it says) in Arabic.

It was kinda funny I thought, that the Saddam flag was flapping away on Southland Drive in the middle of rush hour and nobody noticed.

Then about 45 minutes later I saw Al Macneill going into Mac's, which is unrelated but still kinda cool.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Sep 29 2004, 01:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Sep 29 2004, 01:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

If you are a libertarian as you claim, that is what you should be thinking as well...

My friend, you need to learn something about the Libertarian movement. It is not anti-democracy. It is the most pro-democracy of any party. The founding fathers of the United States were Libertarians and the party believes strongly in those same core values. Personal freedom, liberty and individual responsibility are at the center of the belief structure. A strong free-market economy (not capitalism, as there are huge differences) is the engine to make country work. And a foreign policy of non-intervention, peace and free trade is the final tenet which the party bases its beliefs on. Government is to be small, effective, representative and non-intrusive. I'm not sure how this is "anti-democracy"? [/b][/quote]
There`s no free society where state (democratic or else) exists. There`s no such thing as a free state. That`s the difference between `libertarians` and true libertarians. Social democrats like you first stole the word liberal, which originally described people who favored personal freedom and accepted limited governemnt. Now in North America the word liberal means something absolutely different. Now people like you are doing it with the word libertarian as well. That is why many true libertarians are calling themselves anarcho capitalists now. How long till you steal that word as well?

Libertarians (in true meaning of the word) oppose all form of regulation and state coercion and say that truly free society is one that is based on respect towards property and property rights. Free society cannot exist where economic and noneconomic transactions are not voluntary. Democracy is not based on voluntary transactions/relationships, ie for true libertarians democracy is not acceptable.

PS Strong free market economy is not capitalism? You`ve lost me there, care to explain?