Let's see how consistent people are in their approach to religion...

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Which means, it's trying to tell people who believe in God that either
A) their belief is irrational, or
B) their belief is inconsistent.

The test wants people who believe in God to fail. Someone who believes in God cannot get 0 wrong because while their belief may be consistent, it's calling it irrational and marking it wrong anyways.

So thank-you, you've made my point for me. The test is indeed skewed.

This doesn't mean that you can't beleive in God and and get 0 on the test, all it means is that you can't believe that god can put two rocks next to the other, and that that is the same as having 72 rocks.

The point is that if you believe that God can make an illogical statment true, then there is no point in making logical conclusions about God.

What if the question was
"Do you beleive that God can make it so that God does and does not exist?"

If you said God can do ANYTHING then it would pan out as such:

You say NO: you get "but you said god can do anything so he should be able to do this" so you get a direct hit

You say YES: You get the same bullet as the 1 + 1 = 72 because God clearly can't exist and not exist at the same time.

The point of that one is to show that beleiving God can do ANYTHING is where you will run into inconsistencies in your reasoning, it has nothing to do with wheter or not you think God exists.

EDIT: Interesting tidbit, I originally had Don't know for the does god exist question, I tried the test again but this time answered yes and gave all of the other answers the same and I got the same result, one direct hit and it's on the last question about beleiving that God exists based on faith. The whole idea this question that is brining up so much debate is to point out that saying God can do anything isn't entire true, because presumably even God can't make a contradiction true.

[photon]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Which means, it's trying to tell people who believe in God that either
A) their belief is irrational, or
B) their belief is inconsistent.

The test wants people who believe in God to fail. Someone who believes in God cannot get 0 wrong because while their belief may be consistent, it's calling it irrational and marking it wrong anyways.

So thank-you, you've made my point for me. The test is indeed skewed.

No, I took the test from a "I believe in God" perspective and I got through with no hits and no bullets.. the only thing is I couldn't say I believed that God could do anything He wanted because that creates a logical contradiction.

And that makes sense doesn't it? How would you respond to their contention that the idea that believing in a God that could arbitrarily change reality makes any type of logical discussion of God moot?

[Weiser Wonder]

You can believe in god and pass the test. I did. The only direct hit I took was for the Loch Ness Monster.

[Vulcan]

A test like this is only as good as it's author and his or her conception of what god is or isn't. It seemed overly complicated, for what I believe is a simple experience.

I took one direct hit because of questions 7 and 17. These questions were about the external world and god. My take is that god is inside me, so I didn't jive with the authors preconcieved ideas.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

A test like this is only as good as it's author and his or her conception of what god is or isn't. It seemed overly complicated, for what I believe is a simple experience.

I took one direct hit because of questions 7 and 17. These questions were about the external world and god. My take is that god is inside me, so I didn't jive with the authors preconcieved ideas.

It has nothing to do with wheter or not God exists, or your conceptios of him/her.

It is a purely logical test.

IE if you think God can do anything but you don't think God can make 1 + 1 = 72 then those statements are in direct conflict.

You can get conflicts of the same kind no matter if you beleive in God or Not.

The conflict that you describe is based on you misinterpreting the question.

God inside or outside, the point is that if you believe that it is not justifiable to belive in something based on only a strong conviction in the absence of any evidence, then saying that you think it is justifiable to believe in God based on the same criteria, are conflicting statements.

[Cheese]

LOL...this has been making the rounds for a few years Lanny....and to be honest Ive done it before a few times...so Im aware of the pitfalls it presents...

God's Total Quality Management Questionnaire

God would like to thank you for your belief and patronage. In order to better serve your needs, God asks that you take a few moments to answer the following questions.

Please keep in mind that your responses will be kept completely confidential, and that you need not disclose your name or address unless you prefer a direct response to comments or suggestions.

1. How did you find out about your deity?
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__ Television
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__ Divine Inspiration
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__ My Mama Done Tol' Me
__ Near Death Experience
__ Near Life Experience
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__ Burning Shrubbery
__ Other (specify): _____________

2. Which model deity did you acquire?
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__ Yes __ No

If no, please describe the problems you initially encountered here. Please indicate all that apply:
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creations)
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__ Needed a reason to live
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__ Needed focus whom to despise
__ Imaginary friend grew up
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__ Wanted to meet girls/boys
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__ Like organ music
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__ Thought Jerry Falwell was cool
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__ The Great Spirit
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__ Other: ________________

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7. God employs a limited degree of Divine Intervention to preserve the balanced level of felt presence and blind faith. Which would you prefer (circle one)?
a. More Divine Intervention
b. Less Divine Intervention
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8. God also attempts to maintain a balanced level of disasters and miracles.
Please rate on a scale of 1 - 5 his handling of the following:

(1=unsatisfactory, 5=excellent):

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> Flood 1 2 3 4 5
> Famine 1 2 3 4 5
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> AOL 1 2 3 4 5
> Ken Starr 1 2 3 4 5

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> Stars hovering over jerkwater towns 1 2 3 4 5
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>Getting any sex whatsoever 1 2 3 4 5

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[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

It has nothing to do with wheter or not God exists, or your conceptios of him/her.

It is a purely logical test.

IE if you think God can do anything but you don't think God can make 1 + 1 = 72 then those statements are in direct conflict.

You can get conflicts of the same kind no matter if you beleive in God or Not.

The conflict that you describe is based on you misinterpreting the question.

God inside or outside, the point is that if you believe that it is not justifiable to belive in something based on only a strong conviction in the absence of any evidence, then saying that you think it is justifiable to believe in God based on the same criteria, are conflicting statements.

No, question 7 was about the outside world, question 17 was about god or an internal experience. My internal experience isn't controlled by my outside experience. I could be in the middle of a war and still experiencing peace.

edit: further on this seemingly contradiction , I could be in jail and still experiencing freedom, I could be in a dark room and still see light, I could be in a silent chamber and still hear music. Most may not understand but a few will.

[Daradon]

Made it unscathed! No hits, no bit bullets!

http://www.philosophersnet.com/cgi-bin/god_game18.cgi

I didn't think I ever contradictied myself in our debates about spirituality and moral implications. (Or with other friends) What I believe may or may not be correct, but I am not a hypocrite when it comes to the rules. Nor is my logic faulty.

I take pride in that because my beliefs are not simple nor streamlined, at least in a dogmatic approach. They leave a lot of things open for possibility.

Had to think about question 14 forever...

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

http://www.philosophersnet.com/games/god.htm

And let's everyone be honest. I bit one bullet (freaking Loch Ness monster). Have at er and lets see how consistent we are in approaching out stances on religion. I'm especially interested to see how CalgaryBornAgain does. If he has a leg left after the first check-point I will be shocked! I'm also looking forward to seeing how my man Cheese does. This one's up your alley buddy, knock it out of the park!

One direct hit on the very last question, and I took it because I didn't consider the language carefully enough. Justifiable has a specific meaning don't you know?!

[jolinar of malkshor]

1 hit and 1 bullet

How did you do compared to other people?

• 331195 people have completed this activity to date.
• You suffered 1 direct hit and bit 1 bullet.
• This compares with the average player of this activity to date who takes 1.39 hits and bites 1.11 bullets.
• 45.78% of the people who have completed this activity, like you, took very little damage and were awarded the TPM Medal of Distinction.
• 7.68% of the people who have completed this activity emerged unscathed with the TPM Medal of Honour.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

This doesn't mean that you can't beleive in God and and get 0 on the test, all it means is that you can't believe that god can put two rocks next to the other, and that that is the same as having 72 rocks.

Not necessarily.

It could mean that putting one rock beside another rock gives you a quantity that we call 72.

You're looking at it as though it is asking if 1+1=2 AND 1+1=72 at the same time, which IIRC the question didn't say. It asked if God could make 1+1=72. I.E., instead of 2.

[FlamesAddiction]

I didn't really like the test because of the 1st question.

Religon and God are not the same. For example, I believe in a higher power, but I would not describe that higher power as a "god" or a "being".

Therefore, I didn't feel comfortable choosing any of the 3 answers. Choosing any of them would not have been accurate for my personal beliefs.

[PYroMaNiaC]

I agree with Firefly on this one. If you answered that God can do anything, then he/she should be able to make 1+1=72. The reason I took the bullet for that one was because I thought to myself, "If God already created the universe, he probably created it the way he wanted it to be. If he'd wanted 1+1=72, he would have made it so. He didn't but that doesn't mean he couldn't have."

[icarus]

1 direct hit, 2 bullets for me.

However I take exception to my direct hit:

Earlier you said that it is not justifiable to base one's beliefs about the external world on a firm, inner conviction, paying no regard to the external evidence, or lack of it, for the truth or falsity of this conviction, but now you say it's justifiable to believe in God on just these grounds. That's a flagrant contradiction!

This assumes that God and the external world are directly comparable. The world as we know it is testable and rational. God, to me, however exists elsewhere, another plane or dimension if you will, where empirical rationality and positivism goes out the window.

As for my bullets:

...There is no logical inconsistency in your answers. But by denying that the absence of evidence, even where it has been sought, is enough to justify belief in the non-existence of things, you are required to countenance possibilities that most people would find bizarre...

I can live with that. I always have.

In saying that God has the freedom and power to do that which is logically impossible (like creating square circles), you are saying that any discussion of God and ultimate reality cannot be constrained by basic principles of rationality. This would seem to make rational discourse about God impossible. If rational discourse about God is impossible, there is nothing rational we can say about God and nothing rational we can say to support our belief or disbelief in God. To reject rational constraints on religious discourse in this fashion requires accepting that religious convictions, including your religious convictions, are beyond any debate or rational discussion. This is to bite a bullet.

Yes this is all completely true, although I don't see why it is a bullet. To me, God is a matter of faith and not rational discussion. That is part of my belief system, so don't call it a bullet because I don't subscribe to your rational framework. I think this betrays a bias in the quiz and as such I have to score it a direct hit.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

No, question 7 was about the outside world, question 17 was about god or an internal experience. My internal experience isn't controlled by my outside experience. I could be in the middle of a war and still experiencing peace.

I concur.

EDIT: I have now read the disclaimer at the beginning, about Kirkegaard and such. So I am satisfied.

[Vulcan]

Once again Cheese you've found an article that places god at the lowest common denominater. Your impression of what god isn't, has nothing to do with what my god is.

[Hemi-Cuda]

the only question it nailed me on (one bullet, no hits) was the evolution and proof that god exists one. i disagree that there is no proof that evolution exists, so in my mind that question is flawed. so this test can be skewed against the pure atheists as well, not just the religious

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I didn't really like the test because of the 1st question.

Religon and God are not the same. For example, I believe in a higher power, but I would not describe that higher power as a "god" or a "being".

Therefore, I didn't feel comfortable choosing any of the 3 answers. Choosing any of them would not have been accurate for my personal beliefs.

I am the same way

I believe in a collective consciousness, a common good and energy that runs through people and awareness in general.

I answered 'yes' to: do you believe in god?, and I was able to answer the questions ok with some thinking. As well I made it through unscathed.

God is a term for whatever you believe this force, being, power, consciousness, deity, person, overlord, alien, WHATEVER to be. The word god is trival.

You definition shouldn't matter to this test. It tests whether your thinking is consistant and whether it matches the morals you have and put on the rest of the world.

I don't believe in organized religion, and stay away from religion in my own life (for my reason though I totally undersand others need for it). But I am very spiritual and will always ask those questions of myself and those I am close to. I might be one of the few people who can say a definitive NO to religion, but a definitive YES to god. The trick is not to confuse religion with spirituality.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

interesting, the answers are programmed to be black and white, whereas I don't think that the world is that simple.

Fun exercise none-the-less though

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Once again Cheese you've found an article that places god at the lowest common denominater. Your impression of what god isn't, has nothing to do with what my god is.

The BIG difference is...I can actually have a sense of humor about it...you obviously cant.
Take a deep breath...quite frankly you are worrying too much about what I think.