Mac vs PC

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Fairplay DRM = digital rights management. It is the way the iTunes Music store prevents you from sharing the songs you buy with other people (or putting the songs you buy on anything other than an iPod*).



*yes, there are ways to get around this, but you shouldn't need to jump through hoops to play the music you purchase when, where and how you want (and if you are in the US, it is illegal to bypass DRM)

Talk to the RIAA. Do you think Apple wanted it this way?

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Hakan

I've used it alot and it seems that cosmetics over rule efficiency in OSX.

Now you sound like me and the rest of our prepress department. OS9 was fantastic. Illustrator CS2 and Photoshop CS2 are all about the "pretty" as well. Terrible "upgrades" to software that was very efficient before.

[Flame On]

I think backwards compatability can sometimes be a problem with Macs too, as compared to MS which always includes this.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Flame On

I think backwards compatability can sometimes be a problem with Macs too, as compared to MS which always includes this.

Like what? Can't run Hypercard?

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Table 5

One thing that I find funny is that people think Mac's are only for people who are casual users, and that it doesnt support enough software, or is not built for business. Outside of the gaming environment (something i have absolteuly no time for anyway), there has never been one time where i couldnt find the Mac equivalent of a program, and I rely heavily on a computer for my business. Whether its working with Microsoft Office business aps, downloading music, doing 3D animation, high end graphics, hooking up a blackberry......it's all easily doable, and often times much more functional.

The "Mac's dont support enough software" arguement applied 10 years ago. Today, its nothing but a myth. You can virtually every single thing you want on OS X that you can on a PC....and now you can even run Windows (although i have no idea why anyone in their right mind would.)

Just because Stettler has one Chinese Restaurant, doesn't mean it's any good.

Is it true that some app "exists" for applications on OSX? Yes. Does it mean it's good? No. For example, take our favorite Canadian pastime - taxes. CCRA lists 9 different software packages for completing your T1, including the perennial favorite - QuickTax. Mac? One. TaxTron. I'd bet it's not as good as Quicktax either. The Web tax solutions are out there, but they don't have the same level of functionality as the installed clients do.

Internet news readers? Nothing touches Newsbin. Available for the Mac? Nope.

Go to the outlet that most Canadians buy software from, Futureshop. Pull up the software page. Look how many PC titles there are. Then look how many Mac titles there are. Unless you like Adobe and OEM Apple software, you're hooped.

It's true, you can dual boot, but I find it rather amusing that people would shell out all this extra money on Mac hardware, just so they could go buy a Windows license and run Windows.

Like I said, horses for courses....

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Mac apps are all good but there is always one or two things that they can't do that a PC app can.

This statement always makes me laugh, because PC users say it about Macs, and Mac users say it about PCs. Usually, it's something that you can do on the other system, you just need the right software. Mac definitely gets the edge in what you can do with the system out-of-the-box. PC gets the edge in terms of total software available, although when you factor in that you can run any Unix program on mac as well, it's pretty hard to find anything that can't be done on the Mac (and this will become a moot point if the next version of OSX can run windows programs without switching between OSs). With both systems, some programs are good, some programs are bad. If iTunes is bloated, there's no question that MS Office is just as bad. Both are available on both Mac and PC, and fortunately there are well-made free alternative media players and productivity suites on both systems.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by octothorp

This statement always makes me laugh, because PC users say it about Macs, and Mac users say it about PCs. Usually, it's something that you can do on the other system, you just need the right software. Mac definitely gets the edge in what you can do with the system out-of-the-box. PC gets the edge in terms of total software available, although when you factor in that you can run any Unix program on mac as well, it's pretty hard to find anything that can't be done on the Mac (and this will become a moot point if the next version of OSX can run windows programs without switching between OSs). With both systems, some programs are good, some programs are bad. If iTunes is bloated, there's no question that MS Office is just as bad. Both are available on both Mac and PC, and fortunately there are well-made free alternative media players and productivity suites on both systems.

Really? See, now I don't understand this really. I got my laptop out of the box and started using it right away. The only customizations I made were in putting on non-MS software like firefox, etc.

The only other thing I had to do was name my computer and such... username.. password whatever.

I'm an iTunes hater as well. I got a raw deal with Apple dealing with my iPod and I'm a much happier person now that I have nothing that deals with Apple.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by octothorp

although when you factor in that you can run any Unix program on mac as well, it's pretty hard to find anything that can't be done on the Mac (and this will become a moot point if the next version of OSX can run windows programs without switching between OSs).

I doubt the average Mac user who bought their neat-o white computer is going to have a software need addressed by Unix. Dora (the Explorer) doesn't do Debian.

OSX might run XP apps, I doubt they'll run Vista ones though. We'll see though.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

I doubt the average Mac user who bought their neat-o white computer is going to have a software need addressed by Unix. Dora (the Explorer) doesn't do Debian.

OSX might run XP apps, I doubt they'll run Vista ones though. We'll see though.

Um... Vista is already running on Mac hardware.

Next!

[photon]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Really? See, now I don't understand this really. I got my laptop out of the box and started using it right away. The only customizations I made were in putting on non-MS software like firefox, etc.

The only other thing I had to do was name my computer and such... username.. password whatever.

I'm an iTunes hater as well. I got a raw deal with Apple dealing with my iPod and I'm a much happier person now that I have nothing that deals with Apple.

I think that was part of the point though; to do many things that OSX does out of the box you have to install additional software with Windows.. iLife and all that jazz I guess.

And I agree, iTunes (on the PC anyway) is bloatware and how they lock you in is something I would never support.

http://www.itweek.co.uk/vnunet/news/...security-flaws

Apple patched 26 security flaws today BTW

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Just because Stettler has one Chinese Restaurant, doesn't mean it's any good.

And it's equally possible that the one Chinese food restaurant in Stettler has better Chinese food than the dozens of restaurants in Calgary. I've never eaten Chinese food in Stettler, though.

Is it true that some app "exists" for applications on OSX? Yes. Does it mean it's good? No. For example, take our favorite Canadian pastime - taxes. CCRA lists 9 different software packages for completing your T1, including the perennial favorite - QuickTax. Mac? One. TaxTron. I'd bet it's not as good as Quicktax either. The Web tax solutions are out there, but they don't have the same level of functionality as the installed clients do.

So why is it an advantage for there to be nine different software packages? Granted, there is some competition, but not everything is quality. There are so many PC users that a lot of developers make crappy imitation software products, knowing that just a sliver of the market is enough to make their product viable. If you use QuickTax, why is it a benefit to you that there are eight other PC tax solutions that you don't use? There are probably several hundred media players available for the PC. Of the fifteen or so I've tried on occasion, about twelve of them are crap, and the three or so decent ones were all redundent to one another.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by kermitology

I'm an iTunes hater as well. I got a raw deal with Apple dealing with my iPod and I'm a much happier person now that I have nothing that deals with Apple.

i find it humorous that a person who complains about Apple customer service is a big fan of Dell. For your sake, I hope you speak Urdu.

[Hakan]

So why is it an advantage for there to be nine different software packages? Granted, there is some competition, but not everything is quality. There are so many PC users that a lot of developers make crappy imitation software products, knowing that just a sliver of the market is enough to make their product viable. If you use QuickTax, why is it a benefit to you that there are eight other PC tax solutions that you don't use? There are probably several hundred media players available for the PC. Of the fifteen or so I've tried on occasion, about twelve of them are crap, and the three or so decent ones were all redundent to one another.

Terrible argument.

So what if there is alot of crap software out there? The more competition means that the best will rise to the top and always be finding ways to improve.

And from the sounds of things you don't have a very good idea on how to find good software. I spend no more than an hour finding a new app for something I need to do and all it takes is looking on the internet, finding what you need and evaluating it.

Now you seem to think that the mac is better because there is only one software solution so you don't have to look. Great. I hope the time you saved in looking makes up for the probable time you waste fighting with an app that doesn't do everything you want or does it poorly.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

I doubt the average Mac user who bought their neat-o white computer is going to have a software need addressed by Unix. Dora (the Explorer) doesn't do Debian.

Yeah, exactly: you've got the regular OSX for running pretty much everything the average user needs (yup, you can run Dora the Explorer games on OSX), but if you want to geek-out on some obscure program, the Unix side is there for you.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Hakan

And from the sounds of things you don't have a very good idea on how to find good software. I spend no more than an hour finding a new app for something I need to do and all it takes is looking on the internet, finding what you need and evaluating it.

Hmmmm....

Interesting. What is this Internet that you speak of?

I wish I could search a world wide network of information and files, get them and try them and then pay from them.

There isn't only one application for any use. Go to versiontracker.com and do some searches under Mac OSX. Future Shop isn't a fair representation of the Mac OSX development community.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Table 5

i find it humorous that a person who complains about Apple customer service is a big fan of Dell. For your sake, I hope you speak Urdu.

I never said that I was a big fan of Dell.. just my Dell laptop.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Terrible argument.

So what if there is alot of crap software out there? The more competition means that the best will rise to the top and always be finding ways to improve.

So compare the best PC software against the best Mac software, don't just say that more titles = better software. I've haven't used the accounting packages being discussed in this thread, but I'm not going to be so arrogant as to suggest that one is better than another even if I've only used one.

And from the sounds of things you don't have a very good idea on how to find good software.

At one point I downloaded fifteen media players because I was doing a study on usability in media players. But thanks for patronizing me.

I spend no more than an hour finding a new app for something I need to do and all it takes is looking on the internet, finding what you need and evaluating it. Now you seem to think that the mac is better because there is only one software solution so you don't have to look.

Um, nope, that wasn't what I was suggesting at all. Infact, I specifically avoided saying that Mac is better. Here's what I'm saying: software quality is more important than software quantity when comparing operating systems. The best PC application in a given field may very well be measureably better than the best Mac application. If this is consistenly the case across various application types, then it would be safe to say that the PC has better software. But I suspect that it would come out pretty even.

Great. I hope the time you saved in looking makes up for the probable time you waste fighting with an app that doesn't do everything you want or does it poorly.

I appreciate you concern, but all the apps I use do things pretty well, and they didn't take me very long to find. Same was true when I was a PC user. There's not that much of a difference between systems in that regard.

[RedMan12]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Now you sound like me and the rest of our prepress department. OS9 was fantastic. Illustrator CS2 and Photoshop CS2 are all about the "pretty" as well. Terrible "upgrades" to software that was very efficient before.

I disagree. I do not use Illustrator that much. I do enjoy all the tool and filter updates for Photoshop. It really helps when I use Maya and Flash. I can create better textures and work alot faster.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by RedMan12

I disagree. I do not use Illustrator that much. I do enjoy all the tool and filter updates for Photoshop. It really helps when I use Maya and Flash. I can create better textures and work alot faster.

Yup. And ask any photographer what he thinks of HDR built into photoshop.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Table 5

i find it humorous that a person who complains about Apple customer service is a big fan of Dell. For your sake, I hope you speak Urdu.

see this argument is just silly now. Dell has more than realized how big of a mistake it was to outsource all their support overseas, and now if you call in to them (from Canada anways) you're more than likely going to be talking to someone in Edmonton. and in the US i believe their largest call center is in Dallas. before building my own computers i had a Dell and dealt with their support on more than one occasion, and never had a problem with them. Apple on the other hand i've heard nothing but horror stories about (mind you i've never dealt with them personally, so what do i know?)