Harper to Bring Home Evacuees on Government Plane

[Vulcan]

Mr. Coffee you want to spend $300M to set these people up? I get the feeling that as soon as this war settles down they'll be on the first plane back to Lebanon.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Good move. I am not fan of Harper, but I like what he's doing here. It's a good PR stunt, which he needs after his slow reaction when things started out there.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Jolinar, there's right-wing- and there's being a greedy dick. I realise its mandatory for all Albertans to be capitalistic- but again- that doesn't mean you have to be a dick. You pay 1/3 of your money in taxes? What's that? Oh right... poor you. Boo hoo. Guess what? I pay taxes too. So does everybody on this site (I hope.. unless you don't have to). What's that? You pay $30,000 a year in taxes? So you make what, like, in or around $90K a year? And you can't give like $10 to a program that would save lives? Tell you what. Since your such a penny pincher, I'll pay your $10 for you. Hope you enjoy not getting bombed tonight.

Meanwhile, Chinese people are being brought in to cool the labor shortage in Fort Macmurray. Why not bring in some of the Lebanese, whose houses ARE NOW A PILE OF RUBBLE. Your telling me you can't delay those $300 sunglasses a month so that a family can live? I don't know how much stuff costs? I'm a pot-smoking hippie? You know me like you know your head from your ass, but I love the beautiful sweeping generalizations. Guess what? I'm not proposing 5 Canadians pay for 50,000 people's lives to be saved. I'm proposing 30 million Canadians pay for it. So lets see 30 million times $10/person is $300,000,000. That's enough to get them here, and probably enough to set them up. And if it isn't, do what you can with it. $10 is a Quizno's sub. And I'm not saying fly them here business class with champagne and escargot either. No I'm saying bring SOME people, save SOME lives on a temporary basis. We live in a global community, and our ridiculously isolationist Western hemisphere perspectives cloud that fact sometimes. Bring some people to Fort Mac, get them to build some infrastructure for them to live in. Get them to go on the rigs if needed. Yes. Rigs. Those things that drill for oil that manage to grant you a bonus $400 last year- and again this year.

I never meant to debate delicate issues like social assistance or welfare, things that you decided to bring up in some odd greedy tangent. I'm here to debate the fact that while your sipping your fresh water, breathing our fresh air, sleeping in your warm bed- families in Lebanon are getting SHOT AND BOMBED. So excuse me if my understanding of the situation in terms of comparing their lives to ours includes the belief that there should be an extremely slight financial sacrifice to help others. If everybody does it- then it isn't a burden... is it?

I think you get my point, if you've even read this far. After all- time is money I guess right Jolinar?

Time to go light up again- since I'm a pot smoking hippie.

I guess I am a greedy son of a bitch eh. Huh. Well seeing since Albertans work the most hours in Canada, pay the most taxes and are the larges contributors as far as donations go I guess we all are just selfish SOB's.

Just so you know, one only has to make $75,000 to pay $30,000 in income tax. Also the top 30% of Canadians pay 65.9% of all the taxes in Canada while the bottom 30% pay only 4.7%. SO, instead of splitting the tax burden evenly of $10 times 30,000,000 it will most likely be a couple thousand dollars from the people who are already footing the bill for everthing else.

Oh ya lets jam some more people up in fort mac and pay the $3500 a month in Rent OR lets build a bunch Condos or Apartments for all of them to live in and give it to them.....yaaaaaa......I am sure all the people up there would be quite ****ed of that they are working thier butts off just to make ends meet but we will give FREE housing to these refugees. Sounds like a great plan.

Since Canada already spends 3.7 billion dollars a year on foreign aid we might as well spend more.

I don't know how much you make and I am not going to insult you by guessing but if you want, please feel free to pay my Ten bucks. Thanks I appreciate that.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

I just cant get over the irony of this post when you start it off telling someone else not to be a dick.

You read the whole thread and that was the one that caught your eye as being dick worthy?

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by peter12

Can anyone here imagine Chretien doing this or Paul Martin being able to pull this off?

I'd imagine they take far more heat for doing it...or at least far more heat in Alberta.

I have no issue with him doing this. It's a publicity thing to some degree but who cares, it gets some more people home...and I do believe a number of these people do live in Canada.

The biggest thing that bothers me is the media, or at least the CTV media referring to the plane as "Harper's plane" or "his plane". Perhaps I'm talking semantics, but it's not HIS plane, it's OUR plane, as in the government's plane.

[Flame On]

It's funny, I come on here thinking it's going to be all roses with the majority of right wing and conservative posters. And this after me admitting to myself that it's a really good thing Harper's doing.
Only to discover some unpopularity with the right, and approaval with the left (just to really marginalize and generalize it all) for a Conservative PM's actions. Crazy CP lol

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Since Canada already spends 3.7 billion dollars a year on foreign aid we might as well spend more.

I agree, we might as well. 3.7 billion (assuming your numbers are correct) is not much. I'm sure it's barely more than what Alberta will be collecting as surplus cash over the next couple months so obviously a bigger commitment to our fellow man would be beneficial.

I also agree with you that it's not our place nor a good idea to start flying thousands of non-Canadians into the country.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Jolinar, there's right-wing- and there's being a greedy dick. I realise its mandatory for all Albertans to be capitalistic- but again- that doesn't mean you have to be a dick. You pay 1/3 of your money in taxes? What's that? Oh right... poor you. Boo hoo. Guess what? I pay taxes too. So does everybody on this site (I hope.. unless you don't have to). What's that? You pay $30,000 a year in taxes? So you make what, like, in or around $90K a year? And you can't give like $10 to a program that would save lives? Tell you what. Since your such a penny pincher, I'll pay your $10 for you. Hope you enjoy not getting bombed tonight.

Meanwhile, Chinese people are being brought in to cool the labor shortage in Fort Macmurray. Why not bring in some of the Lebanese, whose houses ARE NOW A PILE OF RUBBLE. Your telling me you can't delay those $300 sunglasses a month so that a family can live? I don't know how much stuff costs? I'm a pot-smoking hippie? You know me like you know your head from your ass, but I love the beautiful sweeping generalizations. Guess what? I'm not proposing 5 Canadians pay for 50,000 people's lives to be saved. I'm proposing 30 million Canadians pay for it. So lets see 30 million times $10/person is $300,000,000. That's enough to get them here, and probably enough to set them up. And if it isn't, do what you can with it. $10 is a Quizno's sub. And I'm not saying fly them here business class with champagne and escargot either. No I'm saying bring SOME people, save SOME lives on a temporary basis. We live in a global community, and our ridiculously isolationist Western hemisphere perspectives cloud that fact sometimes. Bring some people to Fort Mac, get them to build some infrastructure for them to live in. Get them to go on the rigs if needed. Yes. Rigs. Those things that drill for oil that manage to grant you a bonus $400 last year- and again this year.

I never meant to debate delicate issues like social assistance or welfare, things that you decided to bring up in some odd greedy tangent. I'm here to debate the fact that while your sipping your fresh water, breathing our fresh air, sleeping in your warm bed- families in Lebanon are getting SHOT AND BOMBED. So excuse me if my understanding of the situation in terms of comparing their lives to ours includes the belief that there should be an extremely slight financial sacrifice to help others. If everybody does it- then it isn't a burden... is it?

I think you get my point, if you've even read this far. After all- time is money I guess right Jolinar?

Time to go light up again- since I'm a pot smoking hippie.

You must be smoking pot or something because I never called anyone a....what did you call it?......oh ya a pot smoking hippie. You brought that up yourself and I wonder why. Go ahead and make assumption.....I have never owned a pair of $300 sun glasses.....I think the most expensive were $24.99.....oh sorry $26.74.....I forgot the tax. As for your "ridiculously isolationist Western Hemisphere" remark....as stated in my lst post Canada contributes plenty to other countries.....but I guess that is just not enough for you......you want the rich and middle income Canadians to pay as much as they can......they have no RIGHT to make money and live well.......What kind of people live here. Oh ya....another thing that all that smoke has done to ya.....there won't be another $400 rebate check this year. As for putting people on the oil rigs to work.....well that would almost be cruel and unusual punishment, but I guess its ok in your "la la land" to force people to work where we deem fit to pay off there little relocation here to Canada.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Good on Harper for doing what he's doing. What a thrill for those people, to be resuced by our country's Prime Minister. I hope this is an opportunity for Canadians to come together and celebrate being Canadians and not an oppotunity to further divide the nation through partisan bickering!

Sadly, this thread is exactly what you hoped would not happen.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

You must be smoking pot or something because I never called anyone a....what did you call it?......oh ya a pot smoking hippie. You brought that up yourself and I wonder why. Go ahead and make assumption.....I have never owned a pair of $300 sun glasses.....I think the most expensive wear $24.99.....oh sorry $26.74.....I forgot the tax. As for your "ridiculously isolationist Western Hemisphere" remark....as stated in my lst post Canada contributes plenty to other countries.....but I guess that is just not enough for you......you want the rich and middle income Canadians to pay as much as they can......they have no RIGHT to make money and live well.......What kind of people live here. Oh ya....another thing that all that smoke has done to ya.....there won't be another $400 rebate check this year. As for putting people on the oil rigs to work.....well that would almost be cruel and unusual punishment, but I guess its ok in your "la la land" to force people to work where we deem fit to pay off there little relocation here to Canada.

Jolinar, as was previously mentioned by the other gentleman, Snakeeye I believe, my post WAS ironic in that it was written in a somewhat derogatory way to you. For that I am sorry to you. I was just responding at the moment and didn't think twice about it. I was also referring to another's post which was referring to me as a hippie- I believe that was Calgary Flames. Not you.

Jolinar I must say that soon, and I mean fairly soon, I will also be joining the middle to upper class. My wage or soon to be wage- (and yours, although you did bring it up to display how much in taxes you pay, which to me, only fueled my point) is largely irrelevant. I am aware that the majority of taxes precipitating into the federal government are funded by the middle to upper class echelon of society as well. I also find that fairly irrelevant to my theory.

If you actually believe that the northwestern hemisphere (so Canada and States basically) doesn't live in somewhat isolationist societies you probably should read more in international opinions or affairs. There is a large group think out there that believes that the United States is ignorant. That they don't care about other countries, etc etc. The United States doesn't understand why many nations view them as arrogant or ignorant. My belief is that they are isolationist. But I also must say that debate is for another day- I guess unless you feel the need to respond here.

How is it cruel and unusual punishment that we are taking these people from under their destroyed houses and livelihoods, flying them here, giving them a chance to work on a drilling rig and not only that- giving them the option to do so or not to do so? That's a very kind gesture. One that would be remembered and perhaps repeated by other strong and industrialized countries. Maybe you missed the part where I already mentioned that we are already bringing in foreign labour to help ease the shortage of labour. What's the difference between that, and then bringing in Lebanese in order to also save some lives?

Why doesn't Canada propose to other countries, say at the G8 summit in France, to each take in 5,000 people. That's 40,000 right there. I believe that's a very doable number. Don't you?

In summary, I guess I don't understand why proposing a solution help people whose ten year old house just had a rocket explode in it was such an offensive gesture because it perhaps could infringe on your and my comfortable lifestyle. And yes, I will spot you the $10.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Mr. Coffee you want to spend $300M to set these people up? I get the feeling that as soon as this war settles down they'll be on the first plane back to Lebanon.

I agree that's why I said temporary measure. Keep in mind the plan would be a friendly gesture structured to save lives while a violent war thrashes their country, and that they didn't exactly "invite".

[JiriHrdina]

Guys make your points without name calling.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Why doesn't Canada propose to other countries, say at the G8 summit in France, to each take in 5,000 people. That's 40,000 right there. I believe that's a very doable number. Don't you?

In summary, I guess I don't understand why proposing a solution help people whose ten year old house just had a rocket explode in it was such an offensive gesture because it perhaps could infringe on your and my comfortable lifestyle. And yes, I will spot you the $10.

What about the 5,000 we should take from Afghistan or Darfur or Iraq? PLus the 5,000 we would inevitably leave behind? Or those that aren't being bombd now but live in poverty and will die because of a lack or resources?

It seems liek anice idea but it is so logistically impossible and would do little to help the people in general that need help. I would say that the 300 million could be better spent to help them and selfishly in a way that would not bring in 5,000 potentially dangerous, criminal, money grabbing immigrants to Canada.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Jolinar, as was previously mentioned by the other gentleman, Snakeeye I believe, my post WAS ironic in that it was written in a somewhat derogatory way to you. For that I am sorry to you. I was just responding at the moment and didn't think twice about it. I was also referring to another's post which was referring to me as a hippie- I believe that was Calgary Flames. Not you.

Jolinar I must say that soon, and I mean fairly soon, I will also be joining the middle to upper class. My wage or soon to be wage- (and yours, although you did bring it up to display how much in taxes you pay, which to me, only fueled my point) is largely irrelevant. I am aware that the majority of taxes precipitating into the federal government are funded by the middle to upper class echelon of society as well. I also find that fairly irrelevant to my theory.

If you actually believe that the northwestern hemisphere (so Canada and States basically) doesn't live in somewhat isolationist societies you probably should read more in international opinions or affairs. There is a large group think out there that believes that the United States is ignorant. That they don't care about other countries, etc etc. The United States doesn't understand why many nations view them as arrogant or ignorant. My belief is that they are isolationist. But I also must say that debate is for another day- I guess unless you feel the need to respond here.

How is it cruel and unusual punishment that we are taking these people from under their destroyed houses and livelihoods, flying them here, giving them a chance to work on a drilling rig and not only that- giving them the option to do so or not to do so? That's a very kind gesture. One that would be remembered and perhaps repeated by other strong and industrialized countries. Maybe you missed the part where I already mentioned that we are already bringing in foreign labour to help ease the shortage of labour. What's the difference between that, and then bringing in Lebanese in order to also save some lives?

Why doesn't Canada propose to other countries, say at the G8 summit in France, to each take in 5,000 people. That's 40,000 right there. I believe that's a very doable number. Don't you?

In summary, I guess I don't understand why proposing a solution help people whose ten year old house just had a rocket explode in it was such an offensive gesture because it perhaps could infringe on your and my comfortable lifestyle. And yes, I will spot you the $10.

I appreciate the 10 bucks.....I also appreciate that fact that you re-wrote your response in a more friendly manner.

Now, I have no problems bringing in refugees as long as no additional funds are used. If you want to take it out of our annual foreign relief payments...fine....no prob. I would even allow as many people who wanted to come to Canada if they guaranteed us that they would not milk our system ie:welfare, healthcare, subsidies ect.

I have to disagree with you one the salary issue. I personally have no problems paying taxes, I like helping people that need it, but the history of our government has shown that A LOT and I mean A LOT of our tax dollars are squandered on useless programs and given to people who dont need it. When you start making big bucks, I am sure when ever you look at your paystub and see the amount they take off and then all you here about is government waste, you will be ****ed of aswell. The latest "program" that a back bencher Lib wants to start is a subsidy program for people who travel to other parts of Canada. His idea is that you will get up to $2000 back in taxes if you travel at least 3 provinces from your own home and you take either a plane, bus, or train. This is what ****es me off. Also we give back ALL the GST paid by tourrists when they leave the country. WHY?? Getting their GST back will not make or break thier decision to come to Canada......not to mention that fact that it is the most abused program out there by Canadians getting GST back by claiming they are tourrists. AHHHH.

Also, I want foreigners to come to Canada, we need them...but....they need to be productive. Yes Canada has a commitment of brining in refugees. But the system is a complete pile of crap. The people that are actually rrefugees don't get in and the ones that aren't refugees do. It costs the Canadian tax payer over $45,000 per refugee claiment. Canada accepted almost 26,000 refugees in 2003 and another 5,000 Humanitarian and Compasionate cases.

Does life suck for some people??? Yes it does and as members of the global community we have a responsibility to help.....having said that....there is a point in when enough is enough. You and I simple disagree on how much that is.

[jolinar of malkshor]

As for the cruel and unusual punishment....I worked on the rigs before and if you want to split up a family, by al means go work on the rigs. It takes certain people to do that kind of work.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by moon

What about the 5,000 we should take from Afghistan or Darfur or Iraq? PLus the 5,000 we would inevitably leave behind? Or those that aren't being bombd now but live in poverty and will die because of a lack or resources?

It seems liek anice idea but it is so logistically impossible and would do little to help the people in general that need help. I would say that the 300 million could be better spent to help them and selfishly in a way that would not bring in 5,000 potentially dangerous, criminal, money grabbing immigrants to Canada.

One just has to look at the United Kingdom to get an idea of what Canada may become in 25-50 years if we continue with our current immigration policies.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I agree that's why I said temporary measure. Keep in mind the plan would be a friendly gesture structured to save lives while a violent war thrashes their country, and that they didn't exactly "invite".

You seem to be talking about war refugees. Canada has a pretty good record welcoming these. I'm talking about Lebanese using their Canadian citizenship when it's convenient for them. I'm not saying all, but it must be a large percentage [to have 40,000 Canadians] make their permanent home in Lebanon. Why do they get special privileges where they expect us to jump when they get in trouble. We've aready given our hospitality once and bailed them out and they've moved right back. They've made their bed.

Having said this, I'm sure there are many who are only visiting Lebanon and these deserve to be transported out.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You seem to be talking about war refugees. Canada has a pretty good record welcoming these. I'm talking about Lebanese using their Canadian citizenship when it's convenient for them. I'm not saying all, but it must be a large percentage [to have 40,000 Canadians] make their permanent home in Lebanon. Why do they get special privileges where they expect us to jump when they get in trouble. We've aready given our hospitality once and bailed them out and they've moved right back. They've made their bed.

Having said this, I'm sure there are many who are only visiting Lebanon and these deserve to be transported out.

True, and what bugs me is they don't pay a single cent into the Canadian Tax base but want the red carpet brought out when they are in trouble.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

One just has to look at the United Kingdom to get an idea of what Canada may become in 25-50 years if we continue with our current immigration policies.

From what I've read (in the paper,on the window of every shop, and side of a bus in town) it seems to me that we need more immigration, not less.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

True, and what bugs me is they don't pay a single cent into the Canadian Tax base but want the red carpet brought out when they are in trouble.

They also aren't a drain on the tax base when times are good like we all are.