Rumor Control: Fidel Castro had died

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Condescending BS aside.... I have read a ton of reasons to continue the embargo. This very subject was debated in 1999 heavily in Congress, when a Democratic Senator brought a bill to end the Cuban embargo. And though Zara actually believes that the demacracy angle is a fallacy, its in the records of the Congress.

Your obliviousness in regards to the Cuban economy and the importance of sugar exports to the Cuban economy basically makes your opinion on the issue worthless.

I don't know if you even read my post because you completely missed my point on democratic states. Nobody here is arguing that Cuba is a democratic state. However, your argument that the US would end the embargo if Castro was elected is a load of crap. The idea that the US only supports uncorrupted democratic elected leaders is false. Look no further than pre-Fidel Cuba. In the past the US would support any foreign subservient government(fairly elected or not) that would help the United States or that the United States had put in power.

[Dark Gretzky]

Okay now, Im Cuban, and i think i would've heard this like 2 seconds after it happened. HE IS NOT DEAD.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Just out of curiosity, is the United States of America at fault for everything negative in the world? I'm really starting to wonder.

Understanding that basic tenet is the first step towards correctly discussing anything that involves US foriegn policy. Duh! [/sarcasm]

[Dark Gretzky]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ok so what is your opinion on this. Your is much more relevant than say mine.

I love that a cuban guy in jersey likes gretzky, HOCKEY RULES!!

=O! Im a girl! lol! Anyway honestly this is my opinion: Cuba cant survive without Castro. Most of them have never known a life without Castro, and if he dies, the economy is going to get waaaay worse. Yes i do agree that Castro is opressing Cubans but it is a known fact that even though we hate Castro, we still need him to keep our economy at least stable. Plus, his brother is supposed to be waaay worse.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Dark Gretzky

=O! Im a girl! lol! Anyway honestly this is my opinion: Cuba cant survive without Castro. Most of them have never known a life without Castro, and if he dies, the economy is going to get waaaay worse. Yes i do agree that Castro is opressing Cubans but it is a known fact that even though we hate Castro, we still need him to keep our economy at least stable. Plus, his brother is supposed to be waaay worse.

How is Castro viewed in his own country? Is there a secret police? How old were you when you came to the United States? Your opinion is valuable.

[transplant99]

Your obliviousness in regards to the Cuban economy and the importance of sugar exports to the Cuban economy basically makes your opinion on the issue worthless.

get bent.

Your a condescending twit.

I don't know if you even read my post because you completely missed my point on democratic states. Nobody here is arguing that Cuba is a democratic state.

YOU said that there would be no lifting of the embargo if Cuba went to a democratic system...you called it a fallacy.

I just directed you to a debate in the US Congress that directly contradicts that statement....that YOU made.

However, your argument that the US would end the embargo if Castro was elected is a load of crap.

You would know this how exactly??? And its not MY argument, its on record in the US Congress...what part of that can you not get your head around?

The idea that the US only supports uncorrupted democratic elected leaders is false.

Did I say something different?

In the past the US would support any foreign subservient government(fairly elected or not) that would help the United States or that the United States had put in power.

You mean the US did things in its own best interests?? Thats a new one, I cant think of any other countries in the world that do such horrible things.

Good grief.

[Dark Gretzky]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

How is Castro viewed in his own country? Is there a secret police? How old were you when you came to the United States? Your opinion is valuable.

Well technically i was born here. But i always spent my days as a youngin dicussing Castro with my dad and my grandpa and thats how i got to learning about him. Anyway to the good stuff:

To the older generation, Castro is known as a scoundrel for overtaking the country and opressing the people. The refuse to accept him anymore than just a ruthless merciless dictator

To the younger generation, they dont know any better about what has happened in the past so they accept Castro not as their dictator but as their Presidente. they tend to be ingnorant to the fact that he is opressing them, but they dont care because they dont know a life without him.

Many of the older generation fear what will happen to Cuba after Castro dies. Will the economy plunge? Will we be free? Will there be another dictator (i.e his brother)? Will he be worse and more ruthless than Castro?
Looks like we can only find out after he dies

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

get bent.
Your a condescending twit.
YOU said that there would be no lifting of the embargo if Cuba went to a democratic system...you called it a fallacy.
I just directed you to a debate in the US Congress that directly contradicts that statement....that YOU made.
You would know this how exactly??? And its not MY argument, its on record in the US Congress...what part of that can you not get your head around?
Did I say something different?
You mean the US did things in its own best interests?? Thats a new one, I cant think of any other countries in the world that do such horrible things.
Good grief.

How many of your posts actually add something to the discussion at hand? Your post is filled with personal attacks, a large amount of spelling and grammar errors, and basically no substance. Bravo. You have completely failed.

Originally Posted by Dark Gretzky

Well technically i was born here. But i always spent my days as a youngin dicussing Castro with my dad and my grandpa and thats how i got to learning about him. Anyway to the good stuff:

To the older generation, Castro is known as a scoundrel for overtaking the country and opressing the people. The refuse to accept him anymore than just a ruthless merciless dictator

Was your grandpa/family a member of the elite/upper class under Batista?

[transplant99]

How many of your posts actually add something to the discussion at hand? Your post is filled with personal attacks, a large amount of spelling and grammar errors, and basically no substance. Bravo. You have completely failed.

Personal attacks? This coming from someone whom just stated this?

Your obliviousness in regards to the Cuban economy and the importance of sugar exports to the Cuban economy basically makes your opinion on the issue worthless.

Bravo indeed.....and I answered yourquestions above, I guess you didnt like what was said. Good.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

How many of your posts actually add something to the discussion at hand? Your post is filled with personal attacks, a large amount of spelling and grammar errors, and basically no substance. Bravo.

Yours were filled with condescending backhanded comments which I equate to personal attacks.

Congratulations on joining the grammar police, you must be proud. Tranny 's posts do NOT contain a LARGE amount of spelling errors.

You are simply grasping for something to make yourself feel better because you can't refute what he said in his last post. Your argument began and ended with your superior knowledge of the Cuban sugar industry.

[Dark Gretzky]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

How many of your posts actually add something to the discussion at hand? Your post is filled with personal attacks, a large amount of spelling and grammar errors, and basically no substance. Bravo. You have completely failed.


Was your grandpa/family a member of the elite/upper class under Batista?

Naw, he says he was part of the upper middle class at the time...

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

get bent.

Your a condescending twit.





YOU said that there would be no lifting of the embargo if Cuba went to a democratic system...you called it a fallacy.

I just directed you to a debate in the US Congress that directly contradicts that statement....that YOU made.




You would know this how exactly??? And its not MY argument, its on record in the US Congress...what part of that can you not get your head around?



Did I say something different?



You mean the US did things in its own best interests?? Thats a new one, I cant think of any other countries in the world that do such horrible things.

Good grief.

Getting close to losing it, eh Tranny.

Of course the USA does things, in what it thinks, is it's on best interests.

It's just that it gets frustrating watching the USA screw up time after time. Cuba strikes a chord with me since I had to live through the Cuban Missile Crises. Check out how Kennedy, a real leader handled this problem. As I said in an earlier post Kennedy was going to start negotiations with Castro before he was shot. I'm not saying the USSR and Cuba weren't at fault too, but the USA [Eisenhower] got the ball rolling with their shortsighted self interest.
http://www.hpol.org/jfk/cuban/

As far as Castro's prison and legal system goes. It don't sound good but with what is going on in Guantanamo Bay, I wouldn't be bragging. How's it go "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Personal attacks? This coming from someone whom just stated this?

It is obvious your opinion is worthless on this issue. I didn't attack your personality. I didn't call you a "little twit" or a moron.

I think it's time for you to differentiate between personal attack and simply a personal opinion based on evidence.

I don't even know why Displaced Flames fan is even posting, yet again adding nothing to the discussion.

Hey mods, could you warn the posters that take the discussion off-topic? Thanks.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Dark Gretzky

Naw, he says he was part of the upper middle class at the time...

That's what I thought. Because logically for the average Cuban your views would probably be reversed. Castro would be loved after the revolution, but as the country went into serious economic trouble he would be disliked and hated.

Not many Cuban citizens fled the country after the revolution, but as time went on more and more have been heading to the US after years of economic struggle and poverty.

[transplant99]

Getting close to losing it, eh Tranny.

Hardly, but if you feel better thinking so, knock yourself out.

Cuba strikes a chord with me since I had to live through the Cuban Missile Crises.

I was alive then as well...does that make my opinion any better?

Check out how Kennedy, a real leader handled this problem.

Kennedy actually increased the embargo as well as the bad blood with the ill-fated Bay of Pigs fiasco. And im a big Kennedy fan.

As far as Castro's prison and legal system goes. It don't sound good but with what is going on in Guantanamo Bay, I wouldn't be bragging. How's it go "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

POW's can be classified as something a bit different than political activists, or those that Castro fears.....no?

Im no fan of whats happening at Gitmo either, but its irrelevant to this particular discussion.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

It is obvious your opinion is worthless on this issue.

Says who....you?

And you are?

Whining to the mods to warn me and those who disagree with you?

Wow....whats next? Taking your ball and going home?

:baby:

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Says who....you?

And you are?

Whining to the mods to warn me and those who disagree with you?

Wow....whats next? Taking your ball and going home?

:baby:

Can we please stay on topic here? Is it that difficult?:baby:

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Can we please stay on topic here? Is it that difficult?:baby:

I was with the post you have ignored and then proceeded to inform me that you are superior to myself....

You made statements. I refuted them with a link.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I was with the post you have ignored and then proceeded to inform me that you are superior to myself....

You made statements. I refuted them with a link.

Let me rephrase:
Your link came from an anti-Castro propoganda website.

[Dark Gretzky]

Yeah like the younger generation only see him as some sort of savior, and my grandpa always hated that. it ****ed him off.