The Juno's...what the hell?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Not everything on mainstream is crap though. There are genuinely good artists out there that you would ignore because they are on Cjay or whatever. Success does not equal a lack of talent either. Generally speaking, Nickleback is successful, and the 200 bands that try to sound like them are not. (Default anyone?) Why do you suppose they have had so much success when their soundalikes have not?

Thanks for telling me what I would ignore. I never once said that everything mainstream is crap. In fact, I am a big proponent and fan of bands like The Hip, U2, and others like them who can maintain a good level of quality songwriting and appeal to the masses. Also, I think someone like Sam Roberts is great, because he writes great songs, released a great album, and has had that success. I like that. I like it when I don't have to work hard to find quality. However, mainstream radio these days, has become full of Nickelback and their clones. It's funny you mention Default..didn't Chad Kruger or whatever his name is sign Default (among other nickelback clones) to his label? I think Theory of Deadman did as well, and guess what, they sound just like Nickelback. So really, even Nickelback know that derivitive crap sells. Thanks for proving my point. By the way, Nickelback is not the originator, they are a very weak, derivitive, watered down interpretation of the entire "grunge" scene, not an evolution of it. You should go back and listen to Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden and you will hear what Nickelback is trying but cannot come close to achieving. By the way, all those bands were hugely successful in the mainstream and are some of my favourites. I am not some whiney little emo type, so you can forget about piling me in with those guys. They can be equally as closed minded as the mainstream. Thanks.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Well that's personal taste now, isn't it? I happen to think the lyrics to Photograph are quite creative and there isn't a song with lyrics anything similar to it out right now.

"Look at this photograph
Everytime I do it makes me laugh
How did our eyes get so red
And what the hell is on Joey's head"

I stand corrected

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Thanks for telling me what I would ignore. I never once said that everything mainstream is crap. In fact, I am a big proponent and fan of bands like The Hip, U2, and others like them who can maintain a good level of quality songwriting and appeal to the masses. Also, I think someone like Same Roberts is great, because he writes great songs, released a great album, and has had that success. I like that. I like it when I don't have to work hard to find quality. However, mainstream radio these days, has become full of Nickelback and their clones. It's funny you mention Default..didn't Chad Kruger or whatever his name is sign Default (among other nickelback clones) to his label? I think Theory of Deadman did as well, and guess what, they sound just like Nickelback. So really, even Nickelback know that derivitive crap sells. Thanks for proving my point. By the way, Nickelback is not the originator, they are a very weak, derivitive, watered down interpretation of the entire "grunge" scene, not an evolution of it. You should go back and listen to Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden and you will hear what Nickelback is trying but cannot come close to achieving. By the way, all those bands were hugely successful in the mainstream and are some of my favourites. I am not some whiney little emo type, so you can forget about piling me in with those guys. They can be equally as closed minded as the mainstream. Thanks.

Um, I didn't quote your post, it wasn't necessarily directed at you. Thanks. I'm not saying Nickleback doesn't know what sells and caters to it. Any businessperson does. It's a smart way to make money. I know what you think Nickleback is trying to acheive, and I'd venture to say they aren't really. They're trying to be more mainstream than those bands and sell more albums.

Would you also then say that Green Day is a watered down punk only catering to the masses? I'd venture to say they may be, but they're also themselves, and still very talented in their own right.

[LGA]

Anyone that takes Nickleback as a serious band is seriously missing out. They'll never (and should never) be mentioned with Pearl Jam, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC but heck they are what they are, a fun band that doesn't take itself seriously.

Music snobs are like art snobs, they take themselves way too seriously, and they take their art way too seriously. Screw it, have a good time, go with what feels good, it doesn't need to be mind blowing, it doesn't need to have deep lyrics, the instrumentals can suck, but hell, if it's fun, it's fun.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Um, I didn't quote your post, it wasn't necessarily directed at you. Thanks. I'm not saying Nickleback doesn't know what sells and caters to it. Any businessperson does. It's a smart way to make money. I know what you think Nickleback is trying to acheive, and I'd venture to say they aren't really. They're trying to be more mainstream than those bands and sell more albums.

Would you also then say that Green Day is a watered down punk only catering to the masses? I'd venture to say they may be, but they're also themselves, and still very talented in their own right.

I'm personally not a fan of Green Day, or punk necessarily, but I'd say they are probably more of a pop band. And they do what they do well, I don't think its a blatant ripoff of anyone in particular. This is where'd I'd say they're more of an evolution of their influences. They pretty much orginated the pop-punk genre in the early 1990's. Nickelback originated nothing, and bands like them pretty much devolved the reputation of their influences, not pushed it ahead. And I actually find some of Green Day's song's catchy, where I find absolutley no redeeming quality in Nickelback's work. But I am not here arguing that Green Day is a good band.

As for Nickelback, you are pretty much admitting they are trying to make money, and not make great music. Okay. As long as you know that, you should never contend that they are a good band. In fact, you shouldn't even call them musicians, you should call them businessmen. Isn't that what the thread was all about??

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by LGA

Music snobs are like art snobs, they take themselves way too seriously, and they take their art way too seriously. Screw it, have a good time, go with what feels good, it doesn't need to be mind blowing, it doesn't need to have deep lyrics, the instrumentals can suck, but hell, if it's fun, it's fun.

If you don't want to take music that seriously, that's fine. I hope you enjoy what you get out of it, but to me that's like being a bandwagon hockey fan. Just do what's fun, don't get down when your team loses or sucks. Cheer for who ever is in first place, because it's more fun.

Someone who just does something for fun will never get as much from it as someone who is passionate about it. For me the emotional attatchment to something like music or the Flames is what makes it worth while.
Sure if things are bad, you might get down, but when something is done well, you get far more satisfaction then the just for fun fans.

Not taking things seriously is a safe way to go about things, but not nearly as rewarding.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by LGA

Anyone that takes Nickleback as a serious band is seriously missing out. They'll never (and should never) be mentioned with Pearl Jam, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC but heck they are what they are, a fun band that doesn't take itself seriously.

Music snobs are like art snobs, they take themselves way too seriously, and they take their art way too seriously. Screw it, have a good time, go with what feels good, it doesn't need to be mind blowing, it doesn't need to have deep lyrics, the instrumentals can suck, but hell, if it's fun, it's fun.

And this is where you don't get it.
A huge favourite of mine is an indie feller out of New York named Jon Spencer. If you can find it, pick up his album "Now I Got Worry". The guitar riffs aren't amazing talent wise, the lyrics aren't deep but the guy somehow sounds ****ing awesome.

Guys like this are what beat the mainstream and make music unbelievable. It doesn't have to be mindblowing, different or anything else... it just has to be good. "Good" is a very relative term and it means alot of different things to people. But somehow there is a massive difference of "good" between Jon Spencer and Chad Kroeger.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by peter12

And this is where you don't get it.
A huge favourite of mine is an indie feller out of New York named Jon Spencer. If you can find it, pick up his album "Now I Got Worry". The guitar riffs aren't amazing talent wise, the lyrics aren't deep but the guy somehow sounds ****ing awesome.

Guys like this are what beat the mainstream and make music unbelievable. It doesn't have to be mindblowing, different or anything else... it just has to be good. "Good" is a very relative term and it means alot of different things to people. But somehow there is a massive difference of "good" between Jon Spencer and Chad Kroeger.

That's it exactly. But way more people know who Chad Kruger is because mainstream media doesn't play anything else, other than what's easy. Look at Radiohead...arguably the most groundbreaking rock band in the last 15 years..they get a lot of press in music mags, but does CJAY ever play them?? Do they even play the occasional Radiohead song? Radiohead is not an unkown indie band. Radiohead considered by many who are deeply into music to be one of the best bands in the world, and they just don't play them. Yet they play Nickelback clones all day long. I don't feel like everything needs to be groundbreaking either, but like you said, it should be good. Especially if its getting awards.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by peter12

But somehow there is a massive difference of "good" between Jon Spencer and Chad Kroeger.

In your opinion.

It is really surprising to me people actually believe there is an objective barometer as to what constitutes "good" music.

[mbrown]

Exactly, what is good to YOU doesn't make it GOOD. Thats the difference here. All music that I liek I think is good. Why would I listen to what I think is bad? my gawd people, give your head shake. You are impressing no one when you conjur up an artist that someone else might not have heard of. A music critic that doth not make. And who are you kidding that any band wouldn't want to have their music heard by the most amount of people possible?

Love this comparison though:
" Pearl Jam, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC"

Yeah, AC/DC's lyric were ground breaking. HAHA! right up there with pink floyd there are! HAHA my god. That said, one of the best bands of all time.

[LGA]

Originally Posted by mbrown

Exactly, what is good to YOU doesn't make it GOOD. Thats the difference here. All music that I liek I think is good. Why would I listen to what I think is bad? my gawd people, give your head shake. You are impressing no one when you conjur up an artist that someone else might not have heard of. A music critic that doth not make. And who are you kidding that any band wouldn't want to have their music heard by the most amount of people possible?

Love this comparison though:
" Pearl Jam, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC"

Yeah, AC/DC's lyric were ground breaking. HAHA! right up there with pink floyd there are! HAHA my god. That said, one of the best bands of all time.

Where the crow did I ever say that AC/DC had great deep lyrics? No where that's where, they are still however one of the better bands that are available.

I do take my music seriously, but I don't go off the wall whenever Nickleback is mentioned, I don't feel it is as important as breathing or anything. Hell, whatever he gets played on the radio, so what? Most of the bands I grew up loving never get airtime, you'll never hear Soundgarden aside from Black Hole Sun and Spoonman.

They don't even play Pearl Jam on most radio stations, Alice in Chains hasn't been played since well before Layne died. I've never heard CJay or anyone for that matter play Achilles Last Stand, they don't even play Metallica anymore.

If I can influence people towards less mainstream music I will, however, I don't find it essential to have a bash fest the second someone declares they don't care about Nickleback (which is essentially my stance). There's taking your music seriously, than there's the blindfolded "I hate everyone that disagrees with my musical tastes, and what I think of today's modern musical landscape." That's taking yourself way too seriously.

Regardless of who there is in mainstream music there will always be renegades that decide to do something different. They remain in the shadows but they're still there, so I will enjoy what I get out of it. Not to mention, once something does go mainstream it just progressively gets worse, it's the stuff that goes unnoticed that music history remembers best.

[CaramonLS]

Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Pink Floyd are just the Nicklebacks of the 80s.

[mbrown]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Pink Floyd are just the Nicklebacks of the 80s.

Profound

Might want to look at your decade selection again.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by icarus

In your opinion.

It is really surprising to me people actually believe there is an objective barometer as to what constitutes "good" music.

True, but I think most people would subjectively prefer the alternative bands named in this thread to Nickelback if only they got a chance to hear this music. Commercial radio will never provide that opportunity.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by fotze

Well since you like Radiohead, I will take back my previous comments. There latest stuf is tougher to enjoy, but they are definately trying to break new ground. The one concert I went to J. Greenwood would take a radio and try to tune it to a local station and somehow work that into the music. Weird stuff. They could have just did what they did and repeat it and make tonnes more money, but they didn;t.

Yeah, Johnny Greenwood is a madman..I actually really like their latest stuff quite a bit too, i'd consider Hail to the Theif up there with anything they've ever done. But apparently its not good enough for radio.

[Deelow]

CTV Juno rights holders this year.
CTV rights holders to the Idol franchise. That would be why there are 4 or 5 idols nominated. Throw in that the show is in Halifax this year and I'm sure everyone wants to keep the east coasters happy!!! Rex Goudie is laughing.
That about explains it. IMO it has nothing to do with music and everthing to do with CTV and Sony politics. Really there's no other way to explain it.
I don't like Nickelback, but at least I can understand their nominations. This idol crap is pure bs.

[Deelow]

Originally Posted by troutman

True, but I think most people would subjectively prefer the alternative bands named in this thread to Nickelback if only they got a chance to hear this music. Commercial radio will never provide that opportunity.

I doubt it. If people want to hear that kind of music they will find it. The reality is Nickelback is enough to satisfy some people's musical appetites. Who are we to judge?

[Hakan]

Sure there are no absolutes when it comes to art criticism but there are good barometers of what 'good' art is and Nickelback aint it.

You can like whatever music you like but all I will say is this: you are really short changing yourself if you limit your musical taste to the crap they play on CJ92. If you like Nickelback there are many bands out there that are WAY better than they. So sure, let Nickelback get you into a kind of music but then go exploring and find something that's well, actually good.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by icarus

In your opinion.

It is really surprising to me people actually believe there is an objective barometer as to what constitutes "good" music.

Bull****. So let's just chuck Britney Spears up along with Mozart and Bach? There is a talent standard, people don't have to like my kind of music... but they should like good music.

Sweet lord there are about 50 bands in the mainstream and I can safely say they all suck... or almost all of them.

Edit: Hakan has got it down. The whole point of music "snobbery" as some put it, is to explore different genres of music. Nickelback et al are easy listening clone crap that doesn't require any effort on the part of the consumer to actually find good stuff.

By the way, anyone who was at the New Pornographers last night at Mac Hall, how did you find it? AC Newman and all can sure play but MacEwan techs seemed to be having some serious trouble with just about everything from the lights to sounds.

[Deelow]

Originally Posted by peter12

but they should like good music.

Why? Honestly who are you to say what other people should like? And who are you to decide what is good? The reality is different people have different tastes, and for some people as crappy as it may be in your eyes Chad Kroeger singing about finger blasts in the front seat of a car does the trick. If a band like Nickelback is so meaningless to the big artistic picture why do they bother you so much? I know the moment someone with Silver Side Up in his/her collection went and bought an Arcade Fire or Wolf Parade CD most of you would look down your nose and say something like "this music is too good for you, go back to Nickelback".

It cracks me up how many indie music fans claim to be such peace loving people but are absolutely the most judgemental folks I have ever met.