Worst team in the league - Are we "OK" with it?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think the org is too scared to become the next Buffalo/Columbus etc but their never tank approach has this team with 5 playoff series wins and one trip to the finals in 35 years.

I think there’s going to be a big push to be able to sell hope of playoffs but more importantly hope for the future when the rink opens in 2027

And I don't blame them - going full scorched earth, and sucking for 7-10 years, is a terrible strategy for a business and there isn't a lot of evidence that it gets you closer to a cup.

However, it is entirely possible to embrace an off year, and dive in the standings, periodically. The Avalanche have done a good job of this, for example. When it clearly isn't going to be a strong season, trade some people, push down in the standings, and get rewarded for the bad year. Then get back at it, next year.

This is where I think the Flames have failed - it's not that they just want to finish 8th every year, (like some silly fans believe - no rational person wants that), it's that they can't embrace the bad years and run with them. They are too scared of sliding in the standings for a year or two, and they cling too hard to the idea of scraping into the playoffs, even when the team is no where near good enough.

To their credit, they didn't do that last year - despite being higher in the standings than they should have been, they didn't change course, they didn't buy, they didn't spend money, they just let the team overachieve (which I think was the right thing to do).

But what we need to see now, IMO, is for the organization to accept that this is going to be an off year, and to embrace it and make the most of it. Trade guys, get a top 5 pick plus a bunch more picks. Take advantage of the situation.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And I don't blame them - going full scorched earth, and sucking for 7-10 years, is a terrible strategy for a business and there isn't a lot of evidence that it gets you closer to a cup.

However, it is entirely possible to embrace an off year, and dive in the standings, periodically. The Avalanche have done a good job of this, for example. When it clearly isn't going to be a strong season, trade some people, push down in the standings, and get rewarded for the bad year. Then get back at it, next year.

This is where I think the Flames have failed - it's not that they just want to finish 8th every year, (like some silly fans believe - no rational person wants that), it's that they can't embrace the bad years and run with them They are too scared of sliding in the standings for a year or two, and they cling too hard to the idea of scraping into the playoffs, even when the team is no where near good enough.

To their credit, they didn't do that last year - despite being higher in the standings than they should have been, they didn't change course, they didn't buy, they didn't spend money, they just let the team overachieve (which I think was the right thing to do).

But what we need to see now, IMO, is for the organization to accept that this is going to be an off year, and to embrace it and make the most of it. Trade guys, get a top 5 pick plus a bunch more picks. Take advantage of the situation.

agree 100% up to the "accept that this is going to be an off year"

I've always felt that this would be an off year, but I don't blame them for letting some time run before making that call. It's only been 5 games.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Never get hopes up remember we were in the running for Mckinnon and then decided to go on a tear. Never again will I get the hopes up.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Feels so much better without chaotic conditions on their first round pick this year.

Yeah, that put a bit of a cloud over the team last season in the event they missed the playoffs which they did. This season there's really nothing to overly worry about sans whatever return they get for Andersson.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

agree 100% up to the "accept that this is going to be an off year"

I've always felt that this would be an off year, but I don't blame them for letting some time run before making that call. It's only been 5 games.

Oh I agree 100% - it is too early to make that call. But we are heading in that direction, and it is a distinct possibility. So they need to be ready - and willing - to say yes, we're embracing it, should we get to that point.

I wasn't suggesting they make that commitment after 5 games.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think the org is too scared to become the next Buffalo/Columbus etc but their never tank approach has this team with 5 playoff series wins and one trip to the finals in 35 years.

I think there’s going to be a big push to be able to sell hope of playoffs but more importantly hope for the future when the rink opens in 2027

I think they have already tanked harder than almost any team in the salary cap era (happy to be corrected if there is another team that has moved out more vets than the Flames have). A combination of good coaching and picks that have been too successful have prevented the Flames from really losing a lot. If the Flames want to properly tank they need to do 3 things in my opinion.

1) trade the very few remaining vets that they have (they have traded 8 already and basically got nothing in return that helps them win now, they need to move the other 3 or so they have left)

2) they need to consider moving some of their young players that are too good because their drafting and scouting has been too good. Even if you do number one it is unlikely enough to truly suck

3) if they truly want to suck for a long enough period of time to get a lot of top five picks they need to revamp their scouting. If they continue to find good players in all rounds of the draft this will continue to hinder their ability to get top 5 picks.

Those would be my three steps to truly tanking in a way that is meaningful and effective. Only doing number one has proven not to work, need to do numbers 2 and possibly 3.

If the Flames continue to hit on almost every 1st round pick and continue to find guys like Pospisil, Wolf, Fox, Andersson, Kylington after round one it will be very difficult to truly tank to get multiple top 5 picks. There is probably even a 4th category which is their professional scouting has improved too much. Getting a guy like Bahl, who probably had at most the value of a 3rd rounder when they got him and having him turn into a much better player with a value now higher than a 3rd rounder has also hurt their ability to suck long term.

There are a lot of areas as an organization that have to become worse if the goal of losing is to be achieved.

[Huntingwhale]

Flames need to bottom out to get top end talent, no doubt about it. As "fun" as 9th place finishes are, there is no worse spot to be in and nobody is going to remember last season's 9th place as being a good long-term.

[madmike]

I’d be ok with it. Helps the team in the long run.

I’m still not sure they are actually the worst team in the league though.

[SuperMatt18]

If by game 25 they are still bottom 5 then they need to embrace it.

Teams get high picks by leaning into bad seasons, not by trying to salvage a season to scratch and claw their way into a playoff spot and just ending up in the middle.

Last year with the strong start you had to embrace it, try to make the playoffs, and had to let it play out, this year if you get off to a bad start you have to lean into being bad

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think they have already tanked harder than almost any team in the salary cap era (happy to be corrected if there is another team that has moved out more vets than the Flames have). A combination of good coaching and picks that have been too successful have prevented the Flames from really losing a lot. If the Flames want to properly tank they need to do 3 things in my opinion.

1) trade the very few remaining vets that they have (they have traded 8 already and basically got nothing in return that helps them win now, they need to move the other 3 or so they have left)

2) they need to consider moving some of their young players that are too good because their drafting and scouting has been too good. Even if you do number one it is unlikely enough to truly suck

3) if they truly want to suck for a long enough period of time to get a lot of top five picks they need to revamp their scouting. If they continue to find good players in all rounds of the draft this will continue to hinder their ability to get top 5 picks.

Those would be my three steps to truly tanking in a way that is meaningful and effective. Only doing number one has proven not to work, need to do numbers 2 and possibly 3.

If the Flames continue to hit on almost every 1st round pick and continue to find guys like Pospisil, Wolf, Fox, Andersson, Kylington after round one it will be very difficult to truly tank to get multiple top 5 picks. There is probably even a 4th category which is their professional scouting has improved too much. Getting a guy like Bahl, who probably had at most the value of a 3rd rounder when they got him and having him turn into a much better player with a value now higher than a 3rd rounder has also hurt their ability to suck long term.

There are a lot of areas as an organization that have to become worse if the goal of losing is to be achieved.

This is flat out stupid. You can't seriously believe this?

[Rejean31]

Outside of Mckenna, is there anyone else this draft year that looks like a can't miss prospect. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of high end centers.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Calgary Flames are the best team forever.

[nieuwy-89]

I’m ok with it but like others have said I think we will end up in the mushy middle again. I don’t think the organization will ever embrace “tanking” but is banking on stockpiling picks and prospects and hoping to find diamonds in the rough.

Tre built a pretty good core this way although then mismanaged them all off the team.

But I think that’s the template for ownership, not an Oilers style tank.

[Lewis_D]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Outside of Mckenna, is there anyone else this draft year that looks like a can't miss prospect. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of high end centers.

I think you're correct about high end centers this draft.

I've seen lots of hype around Keaton Verhoeff. Played with Reschny in Victoria and moved to North Dakota this season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Outside of Mckenna, is there anyone else this draft year that looks like a can't miss prospect. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of high end centers.

It’s a bad draft for centres
The piece you get this year is a top line winger
Even outside McKenna there’s quite a few of those

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Outside of Mckenna, is there anyone else this draft year that looks like a can't miss prospect. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of high end centers.

Tynan lawrence and bjork. Bjork while supremely talented is 5 foot 9. Not ideal for a center but hugely skilled. Like i mentioned the top ten is rather gross with talent this year but maybe two top flight centers.

[ComixZone]

The best case scenario for this organization is to sit in last place for the duration of the season.

Give ourselves the best chance possible to really get an impactful player, because we need it.

So, am I "OK" with it? I'd be overjoyed with it if we stayed right there for the full season.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Will root for wins every game this season and never be disappointed with any result. Its sort of freeing!

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by troutman

The schedule has been tough. I expect Flames to finish between 20-25, unfortunately. We really need a lottery win.

Any idea as to the odds of drafting first overall if we are last in the standings?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Never get hopes up remember we were in the running for Mckinnon and then decided to go on a tear. Never again will I get the hopes up.

Haha yeah I remember that like yesterday. Flames sold off Iggy and JBo and I thought, "well at least we'll get Mackinnon out of this now".

Nope, Flames had to gut out those character building wins late in the season lol