[Signing] Flames sign RFAs Kerins, Kuznetsov, and Poirier

[1qqaaz]

Rory Kerins and Mavrik Bourque are actually pretty comparable players.

Rory Kerins

23 years old, 5'10", 175 lbs

61 points in 63 AHL games

4 points in 5 NHL games

Mavrik Bourque

23 years old, 5'11", 171 lbs

77 points in 71 AHL games last season

25 points in 73 NHL games

Yet the Stars — who are a much deeper team — seem more willing to give Bourque a real shot than the Flames are with Kerins. Not sure why that is.
I don't really see the point in acquiring Bourque when the Flames already have Kerins.
However, Dallas's 1st is very enticing, because Gulutzan might run that team to the ground.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Yet the Stars — who are a much deeper team — seem more willing to give Bourque a real shot than the Flames are with Kerins. Not sure why that is.

The Stars are up against the cap. Having a player who can be slotted at any forward position for under a million bucks is hugely valuable to them.

[EVERLAST]

Whether this works or not Be it with Kerins or any other guy Conny is keeping his words true

Lets see what these kids have . No more desperation of PTO swing as miss deals wasting money, demoralizing prospects , And creating doubt within the organization by continually trying reclamation projects.

I love were developing from within, Wranglers are here and the promise of a new culture and establishment of a new pedigree of winning not reliant on tanking and fluking out or being gifted lottery players .

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Rory Kerins and Mavrik Bourque are actually pretty comparable players.

Rory Kerins

23 years old, 5'10", 175 lbs

61 points in 63 AHL games

4 points in 5 NHL games

Mavrik Bourque

23 years old, 5'11", 171 lbs

77 points in 71 AHL games last season

25 points in 73 NHL games

Yet the Stars — who are a much deeper team — seem more willing to give Bourque a real shot than the Flames are with Kerins. Not sure why that is.
I don't really see the point in acquiring Bourque when the Flames already have Kerins.
However, Dallas's 1st is very enticing, because Gulutzan might run that team to the ground.

Yet Bourque is considered a fairly good prospect and Kerins is likely more of a tweener.

Points in the minors is not everything in evaluating talent.

I am no expert, but in reading opinions on those players it seems fairly obvious they are ranked very different.

Even Calgary doesn't seem to rank Kerins very highly.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Rory Kerins and Mavrik Bourque are actually pretty comparable players.

Rory Kerins

23 years old, 5'10", 175 lbs

61 points in 63 AHL games

4 points in 5 NHL games

Mavrik Bourque

23 years old, 5'11", 171 lbs

77 points in 71 AHL games last season

25 points in 73 NHL games

Yet the Stars — who are a much deeper team — seem more willing to give Bourque a real shot than the Flames are with Kerins. Not sure why that is.
I don't really see the point in acquiring Bourque when the Flames already have Kerins.
However, Dallas's 1st is very enticing, because Gulutzan might run that team to the ground.

Rickard Rakell had 70 pts this year, Barkov had 71... It doesn't make any sense that Barkov is so much more highly regarded.

[RedHot25]

Yes, odd take....is a bit odd.

[Bingo]

And for the record ... I would never cheer against a prospect with talent.

Just roll my eyes with the 4 points in 5 games crowd completely missing the fit, and what the player needs to do to stay in the NHL.

As I said above, with his puck skills and IQ he could be an interesting player if he picked up a touch of speed and was better at coverge.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And for the record ... I would never cheer against a prospect with talent.

Just roll my eyes with the 4 points in 5 games crowd completely missing the fit, and what the player needs to do to stay in the NHL.

As I said above, with his puck skills and IQ he could be an interesting player if he picked up a touch of speed and was better at coverge.

I agree.

I also remember me being very harsh on Coronato, and to a lesser degree Klapka when their skating wasn't at a NHL level, so now I'm leaning more the other way, and giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm cautiously optimistic about Kerins making the Flames' 4th line, and slowly working his way up the lineup. There's definitely more there, and I hope the Flames are the team to untap it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And for the record ... I would never cheer against a prospect with talent.

Just roll my eyes with the 4 points in 5 games crowd completely missing the fit, and what the player needs to do to stay in the NHL.

As I said above, with his puck skills and IQ he could be an interesting player if he picked up a touch of speed and was better at coverge.

You're not wrong but IMO this organization needs to do a better job still at keeping some of those spots open in the bottom 6 for young guys to get the chance to develop at the NHL level.

Sometimes you need to play at the NHL level to learn how to be an NHLer...it's like Sutter said about d-men. You need 300 NHL games before you really learn how to be an NHL d-man...and you can't learn that in the AHL.

It's the same for the Flames tweener forwards - at some point you need to give them at least a 10-20 game run at the NHL level just to see what's there and let them learn the NHL game.

Personally I would have just much rather have seen Stromgren, Kerins, Honzek, and Morton get the NHL games that Rooney (70), Kirkland (21), Duehr (16), Bishop (6), and Hunt (5) got last year. Even just half of those games would have been 60 NHL games that could have been used to help develop youngsters that instead were used for guys that were never long term solutions for the organization, but were "safer" bets to play in the bottom 6 last year.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I'll come back to accept your apologies when he turns out to be a player for us.

One could point out that the knocks are as flimsy as the point production given the sample size in the league.

People weren't nearly as critical on more highly touted prospects for being raw/unpolished in their first handful of games and gave much less scrutiny when they did show early production. Production is production, and I remember distinctly that he did more to earn his points on a couple of those plays than simply connect a pass.

The reason why I gave Huska flak at the time is because at the time we were hurting for offense (which improved down the stretch) and Kerins and Pelletier looked to have chemistry, but then the team immediately took both off the roster and the offense predictably dried up for a period of time after that.

Anyways, he was likely given notes and hopefully is getting the skating coaching he needs to close the remaining gap to becoming a regular player here. We'll see what happens.

But Kerins has been a late bloomer at a couple of levels now and found his way in the end so I wouldn't be surprised if it happens here as well. Not all players that make it have the same trajectories.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And for the record ... I would never cheer against a prospect with talent.

Just roll my eyes with the 4 points in 5 games crowd completely missing the fit, and what the player needs to do to stay in the NHL.

As I said above, with his puck skills and IQ he could be an interesting player if he picked up a touch of speed and was better at coverge.

Fair points, but the peculiar amount of exertion you're putting into this particular case to disprove his readiness almost comes off like it.

Just remember to give Kerins his flowers too if he breaks through this sseason.

[yourbestfriend]

Obviously there's only so many spots on the Flames roster, but I'm rooting for all these guys.
On that note, 2020 looking like a pretty decent draft: Zary, Kuznetsov, Poirier, and Kerins. The later three have basically developed as much as they can in the AHL to the point where this is the year they should be pushing for full time NHL positions or spending a significant time up with the Flames.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I'll come back to accept your apologies when he turns out to be a player for us.

One could point out that the knocks are as flimsy as the point production given the sample size in the league.

People weren't nearly as critical on more highly touted prospects for being raw/unpolished in their first handful of games and gave much less scrutiny when they did show early production. Production is production, and I remember distinctly that he did more to earn his points on a couple of those plays than simply connect a pass.

The reason why I gave Huska flak at the time is because at the time we were hurting for offense (which improved down the stretch) and Kerins and Pelletier looked to have chemistry, but then the team immediately took both off the roster and the offense predictably dried up for a period of time after that.

Anyways, he was likely given notes and hopefully is getting the skating coaching he needs to close the remaining gap to becoming a regular player here. We'll see what happens.

But Kerins has been a late bloomer at a couple of levels now and found his way in the end so I wouldn't be surprised if it happens here as well. Not all players that make it have the same trajectories.

How much did you watch him in the AHL?

People were also up in arms about Phillips not getting a proper opportunity, but if you watched him in the AHL you saw all the shortcomings that would stop him from succeeding in the NHL on full display. Wolf was the opposite.

Point production is a product of dozens of factors that happen on the ice. Things like speed, coverage, shot quality, etc, are a product of one factor: Kerin’s ability. Not sure how those things are equally flimsy.

Nobody is writing him off, but I’d maybe have watched him in the AHL first before penciling him in as a 60+ point forward after 5 NHL games. None of his shortcomings were things that suddenly appeared in the NHL. It was the same with Phillips, and yet too many were convinced the Flames were doing him dirty.

Doesn’t mean he can’t come into camp having addressed those issues. But let’s not pretend he didn’t have a ton of work to do.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Kerins Article

He has a taste and wants more (for those who don't want to read the article )

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

You're not wrong but IMO this organization needs to do a better job still at keeping some of those spots open in the bottom 6 for young guys to get the chance to develop at the NHL level.

Sometimes you need to play at the NHL level to learn how to be an NHLer...it's like Sutter said about d-men. You need 300 NHL games before you really learn how to be an NHL d-man...and you can't learn that in the AHL.

It's the same for the Flames tweener forwards - at some point you need to give them at least a 10-20 game run at the NHL level just to see what's there and let them learn the NHL game.

Personally I would have just much rather have seen Stromgren, Kerins, Honzek, and Morton get the NHL games that Rooney (70), Kirkland (21), Duehr (16), Bishop (6), and Hunt (5) got last year. Even just half of those games would have been 60 NHL games that could have been used to help develop youngsters that instead were used for guys that were never long term solutions for the organization, but were "safer" bets to play in the bottom 6 last year.

Thank you for conveying my same thoughts on this.

If we're not giving these players with upside regular rotations while we're in a supposed rebuild, when will we?

Some experienced players that move the needle are justified in keeping their ice time and getting priority to draw in. But Rooney and Hunt (and even sometimes Lomberg) are not those guys. The Flames making "safe" call ups instead of ones that serve development (until they were eliminated) is mildly frustrating to me. This team should be in a development mindset, even at the NHL level.

And despite playing it safe they missed the playoffs anyways. I would've much preferred to see Stromgren, Kerins and Honzek rotate in in the final weeks to give them proper experience.

And funny enough, I still believe that if Parekh drew in for that game in Anaheim, they wouldve actually made the dance.

The Flames wouldve ironically been rewarded with precisely the outcome they were aiming for by just trusting their young talent instead of worrying about mistakes and sheltering them.

Reward doesnt come without some risk.

The era of the strict Sutter approach around young players should've been put behind us when we shipped half the team out.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Thank you for conveying my same thoughts on this.

If we're not giving these players with upside regular rotations while we're in a supposed rebuild, when will we?

Some experienced players that move the needle are justified in keeping their ice time and getting priority to draw in. But Rooney and Hunt (and even sometimes Lomberg) are not those guys. The Flames making "safe" call ups instead of ones that serve development (until they were eliminated) is mildly frustrating to me. This team should be in a development mindset, even at the NHL level.

And despite playing it safe they missed the playoffs anyways. I would've much preferred to see Stromgren, Kerins and Honzek rotate in in the final weeks to give them proper experience.

Yup this remains my biggest frustration of last season.

I can understand not trading all your veterans day 1 of a rebuild / retool and keeping the strong veterans like Backlund, Coleman, Kadri, Weegar, etc around the team.

But I don't understand replacement level veterans being given so many looks.

Rooney , Kirkland , Duehr, Bishop , and Hunt did not need to play 118 games for this team last year. Lomberg didn't need to dress in 80 games last year either and quite frankly was probably a signing they didn't need to make. (He's such a great guy you can overlook that a bit but still feels like he could have been deployed more as the 13th forward)

Even on defense...Hanley ended up being a great story...but really Barrie and Hanley didn't have great camps and probably shouldn't have been on the opening night roster. More space should have been open for guys like Solovyov, Kuznetsov, etc to get more NHL action last year.

Honzek, Stromgren, Kerins, Morton, Grushnikov, Bryzstewicz, Kuznetsov, Poirier, and Solovoyov playing 17 combined games for the Flames last year doesn't seem like the ideal outcome for player development to me. And this year I feel like we probably have even more players knocking on the door, and even less space available for them.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

100%

And its strange because I thought Huska was a pro-developmeny hire, under whom we would see more opportunity given to those types of players.

Instead we saw more of the same from this team, still committing to tweener veterans and known quantities over youth in an attempt to "maximize" their chances at an 8th place finish.

Its beyond me why Rooney and Hunt are so well liked when any one can see that they were not long for this organization let alone factoring into the long term outlook.

Those guys logjamming things for players who may be outside shots but still have the potential to become players makes no sense to me, and less so now that we've officially gone into a rebuild/retool phase.

I think Huska really wanted to have a playoff finish under his belt that he lost sight of the bigger picture. Maybe Connie too.

[PepsiFree]

This is funny revisionist history.

Hunt played 5 games, the same or less than Kerins, Solovyov, Honzek, Pelletier, etc.

Players 24 and under accounted for something like 300 games. 5 different guys Kerin’s age or younger spent time with the big club.

Why people focus in so hard on players that look like tweeners and ignore how much rope guys like Coronato got is beyond me. But hey.

[shutout]

You cant tell the young guys and the rest of the team that you expect them to be competitive and try and compete for a playoff spot when you dress and play your AHL lineup. As a coach you need to at least be making it look like you are trying to win games if you are going to hold your players accountable for playing hard and trying to win themselves.

[Jiri Hrdina]

There also weren't a lot of forwards knocking on the door.
Bill Stromgren had a very up and down season and basically didn't earn a chance. At the beginning of the year, Conroy even specified him as a guy he hoped would be ready to see some NHL duty. Stromgren didn't put himself in position for that to happen, even as the call up in game 82.

So beyond Kerins and Stromgren who else are we talking about? I think Rooney was a regular player because the lack of centres and guys who could take faceoffs.

One could argue there was more opportunity in the blueline, and perhaps too many bodies were in the way there. But post deadline the team was pushing for a spot, and got enough points to get one, if not for some horrible luck. So I can't find fault with their line-up decisions down the stretch. They ripped off a great streak to try and get in.