It’s starts with strong ownership and the trickle down happens. Allowing your managers to be bold and players to be themselves. Coaches to do what is necessary.
Also adding that after losing to Tampa in 2021 (2-4) and 2022 (0-4), they built a team that could smash them in the playoffs, going 4-1 in both 2024 and 2025.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mac_82 For This Useful Post:
Also adding that after losing to Tampa in 2021 (2-4) and 2022 (0-4), they built a team that could smash them in the playoffs, going 4-1 in both 2024 and 2025.
This is a good point, they really understood the playoff format and that all roads for the foreseeable future run through Tampa and structured their roster accordingly.
Also...have I mentioned 'Spite?'
Nevermind anything else, never underestimate Spite. Florida has a grudge against Tampa and they intend to make good on it. And thats fun!
They also now have a grudge against Edmonton which is also good.
Whatever else...Florida plays with passion and, if they hate you, really loathe you down to the core of their being...they'll let you know.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
They hate to lose. Everyone on that team wants to win, and not just win once. Remember when Giordano told Tkachuk that they can't play like that every single night? Well he was wrong. Tkachuk is a leader, and though he may of been young and dumb you could see the desire and the passion. That kid cares and he's good for the ####ty brand the NHL has become. Matthew and Brady both understand how the game should be played, whether the majority of people like it or not.
I don't cheer for the other Canadian teams. Maybe I'm old fashioned. I want Calgary to win. I get irrationality angry when the lose, and I want more when they win. I hate the Oilers more than anything in this world when it comes to sport. If Brady makes it to the finals and it's against anyone that isn't the Calgary Flames, I hope he wins it all. That Florida team is something special and it really feels like they have put the league on notice.
Bunch of rambling, but hockey is fun.
.
__________________
I hate just about everyone and just about everything.
When you play an opponent whose only trick in the book is to spam McDavid and Draisatl, you have your work cutout. Success in the playoffs depend on adaptability and having your strategy being using just 2 players, your options become limited
__________________
"Half the GM's in the league would trade their roster for our roster right now..." Kevin Lowe in 2013
Also adding that after losing to Tampa in 2021 (2-4) and 2022 (0-4), they built a team that could smash them in the playoffs, going 4-1 in both 2024 and 2025.
Echoes of the challenge the Flames had in the late 80s of beating a powerhouse Oilers team.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
For me, it started when they got the 2nd OA and were able to take Barkov. Bringing in a super motivated, talented, and mature kid like that changed the country club atmosphere around the team.
Obviously drafting high doesn't get it done alone, but without those types of draft picks, you're not getting it done. And you usually need more than one.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
I think a lot of the criticism of Flames player personnel choices '15-'22 era is some area is somewhat unwarranted. Winning is hard in a 32 tam league, statistically it's something that should only happen 2-3 times in a life time, and the Flames built a team that could have come pretty damn close with a little bit of better luck.
If you don't lose a Norris quality d-man due to refusal to sign.
If Monahan and Bennet are little more healthy
If Markstrom could have hit a hot steak in the playoffs.
If, if, if....
They had 3 high quality top 9 centers. They had 3 first pairing D men, and a couple more guys who could play top 4 minutes no problem. They had a few Elite wingers in the roster, and some other guys who could get on scoring streaks for a week or two. All of the pieces were there, it fell apart pretty quickly for a variety of reasons, and I think a change of pace in management was fair after it feel apart, but that doesn't mean they didn't do everything to put a winner together before that.
On the other hand, I will say the coaching choices in Calgary for about 20 years were just bad. There were a lot of bad coaches brought in, there were a lot of guys who were OK that weren't given enough rope to provide consistency to the team. I really hope the success last year will give Huska enough rope to survive 2-3 years even if the results aren't as good, as this current team is being built around what we can do in the draft '24 / '25 / '26, and it may take them a couple of years to settle into the league.
Just like anyone else who has won, their trades and signings worked out.
To keep being competitive the biggest factor is the flat cap. It kept all their signings low through the flat cap and now the cap is exploding and most of their big pieces are already signed long term. Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling, Lundell, Verhaege, Rodrigues all locked up before the big cap rises we're seeing. Compare that with Edmonton who already pays more for their "core 4" than Florida's top line (5 players) and thats before McDavids extension. Next year the Oilers will spend more on their top 4 than Florida does on their top 6 players.
Step 1) Acquire multiple core pieces at the top-end of the draft, at least one of which is a #1 Centre
2011 - Jonathan Huberdeau (Star winger at 3rd overall)
2013 - Sasha Barkov (#1 Centre at 2nd overall)
2014 - Aaron Ekblad (top 3 defenseman at 1st overall)
Step 2) Acquire a goalie who is good enough to not have Brian Elliott 2017 level meltdowns in the playoffs. Goalie does not need to play 60+ games in the regular season or even have a great regular season, but some pedigree and health are key.
2019 - Sergei Bobrovksy (Goalie)
Step 3) Add key, high-bang-for-buck pieces at key positions via shrewed UFA signings, waiver wire pickups, and one-sided trades for malcontents. Need good pro scouting
2020 - Carter Verhaege (top six winger)
2021 - Gustav Forsling (#1 Defenseman)
2021 - Sam Bennett (#2 Centre)
2021 - Sam Reinhart (top line forward)
Step 4) Scout well to fill out your depth and be in the conversation for a division title with all of the above healthy plus good secondary pieces
- Anton Lundell (#3 centre with the talent to be a #2 centre)
- Spencer Knight (decent backup who allowed Bobrovsky to avoid 70 game seasons)
- Eetu Luostarinen (#4 centre with the talent to be a #3 centre)
2022 President's Trophy
Step 5) Be unafraid to look at good regular season results and tweak key areas to maximize value:
2022 - Weegar, Hubererdeau, 1st for Matthew Tkachuk
2022 - Bring in Paul Maurice
Step 6) Add high-end rentals who have no business playing down the lineup, and have the luxury to... actually and successfully find a role that plays them down the lineup relative to where they played at peak capacity
2024 - Vladimir Tarasenko(anchored their bottom six plus powerplay), Oliver Ekman-Larsson (anchored their middle pair), Brandon Montour (anchored their PP plus second pair)
2025 - Brad Marchand (anchored their 3rd line), Seth Jones (well, he played top pair for them but this pushed Ekblad to second pair)
It really comes back to step 1 for me. The step the Flames never seem to agree to do
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
The best-case scenario for the Flames' current trajectory is to become the Winnipeg Jets. Shrewd drafting and finding value players in trades can lead to great regular-season success, but there is going to be a barrier for playoff success without those elite game breakers (Step 1).
It's a bit disappointing that becoming the Jets is likely the high bar for this franchise. The only other line of hope is Dustin Wolf's ability to reach a new level and carry the team deep when they do make the playoffs again.
Step 1) Acquire multiple core pieces at the top-end of the draft, at least one of which is a #1 Centre
2011 - Jonathan Huberdeau (Star winger at 3rd overall)
2013 - Sasha Barkov (#1 Centre at 2nd overall)
2014 - Aaron Ekblad (top 3 defenseman at 1st overall)
Step 2) Acquire a goalie who is good enough to not have Brian Elliott 2017 level meltdowns in the playoffs. Goalie does not need to play 60+ games in the regular season or even have a great regular season, but some pedigree and health are key.
2019 - Sergei Bobrovksy (Goalie)
Step 3) Add key, high-bang-for-buck pieces at key positions via shrewed UFA signings, waiver wire pickups, and one-sided trades for malcontents. Need good pro scouting
2020 - Carter Verhaege (top six winger)
2021 - Gustav Forsling (#1 Defenseman)
2021 - Sam Bennett (#2 Centre)
2021 - Sam Reinhart (top line forward)
Step 4) Scout well to fill out your depth and be in the conversation for a division title with all of the above healthy plus good secondary pieces
- Anton Lundell (#3 centre with the talent to be a #2 centre)
- Spencer Knight (decent backup who allowed Bobrovsky to avoid 70 game seasons)
- Eetu Luostarinen (#4 centre with the talent to be a #3 centre)
2022 President's Trophy
Step 5) Be unafraid to look at good regular season results and tweak key areas to maximize value:
2022 - Weegar, Hubererdeau, 1st for Matthew Tkachuk
2022 - Bring in Paul Maurice
Step 6) Add high-end rentals who have no business playing down the lineup, and have the luxury to... actually and successfully find a role that plays them down the lineup relative to where they played at peak capacity
2024 - Vladimir Tarasenko(anchored their bottom six plus powerplay), Oliver Ekman-Larsson (anchored their middle pair), Brandon Montour (anchored their PP plus second pair)
2025 - Brad Marchand (anchored their 3rd line), Seth Jones (well, he played top pair for them but this pushed Ekblad to second pair)
It really comes back to step 1 for me. The step the Flames never seem to agree to do
Well put. In addition to all of this, and maybe it's a string of ridiculously good luck, but their pro scouting seems to be on another level. Grabbing the likes of Verhaege, Bennett, Reinhart, Forsling who are all major pieces of their core, not to mention getting vets who have trailed off in their respective careers (Ekman-Larsson, Schmidt, Jones) to have a total resurgence.
I can't think of an organization in recent memory who has come remotely close to this level of talent recognition, and the acquisition costs have been pennies on the dollar.
Praying on the poorly run teams and taking all their talented players for Pennies on the $
It isn't really about pennies on the dollar. Florida's ownership and GM aren't scared to make big moves. Instead of nibbling around the edges, they decided to make serious changes and believed in their path fully. Contrast with the Flames (and many other teams to be fair), constantly waiting to move players until their deals are near expiring or being unwilling to pay prices for quality players via trade.
Crossroads here was that Flames should have paid the price for Eichel, Stone at the time and moved or extended Gaudreau/Tkachuk etc. before getting too far down the road into contract issues or bridging.
__________________
I hate to tell you this, but I’ve just launched an air biscuit
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hot_Flatus For This Useful Post:
Overall, I think it's Calgary's impatience that keeps the team where it is.
I ran into a member of the player development team on the weekend. One thing he said is that the team is going to have to be more patient than the fans like. They need to make sure they get the full potential out of the prospects we have, and not repeat the mistakes we made with Bennett.
The Following User Says Thank You to Pellanor For This Useful Post:
It isn't really about pennies on the dollar. Florida's ownership and GM aren't scared to make big moves. Instead of nibbling around the edges, they decided to make serious changes and believed in their path fully. Contrast with the Flames (and many other teams to be fair), constantly waiting to move players until their deals are near expiring or being unwilling to pay prices for quality players via trade.
Crossroads here was that Flames should have paid the price for Eichel, Stone at the time and moved or extended Gaudreau/Tkachuk etc. before getting too far down the road into contract issues or bridging.
I think this is really a critical element.
A lot of GMs spend so much time and energy crafting a roster that they become very attached to it and at the same time, prioritize asset management over winning.
And I've said this many, many times. They should have fired Treliving eons ago and brought in someone not attached to the roster willing to take said 'Big Swings' but they didnt.
Bring in someone who is willing to make the big move in order to win.
Make no mistake, I dont mean to disparage Conroy, I like that he shipped the 'Pouty Players' out of town, but look at teams like Chicago, LA, Tampa, Florida, Vegas, etc...they have burnt their prospect cupboards to the ground in order to fashion winning teams immediately, and its worked. They're going to go through periods of suckitude, but a few Trophies in the Cabinet tends to smooth a lot of rough edges.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Paul Maurice has stated it multiple times. These guys are the closest team in the league that he's ever coached. They're different.
When he was introduced to each player none of them spoke about themselves.
They explained to Paul how eachother each man brought something valuable to the ice by saying " wow you should see what his faces shot, skating, leadership.
By the time he was done making calls he was amazed, excited awestruck.
Can you imagine working somewhere where nobody smacktalked a co worker?
Tkachuk once took all the trainers out for dinner.
Lomberg is still talked about like he's still there . Ryan F ing Lomberg.
And while that has to sting Weegs and Hubey it's an unspoken character assassination. You aren't missed . That's pretty harsh I know but that's huge .
Contribute to a champion, culture and pedigree of winning and be remembered fondly when you leave the room.
Marchy fit in immediately. They guy they hated blew their minds . Talk about Zito knowing what pieces fit perfectly .
Now that's a GM , scouting, manager and former player, opposing player speaking so highly of a guy that that's what the Panthers have become.
You cannot teach this stuff . I see the Flames slowly slowly doing this .
A couple of years ago Coleman hosted the team at his house for Thanksgiving when they were on the road in Dallas as he has a residence there. That's the stuff of champions right there . Alumni calling players to welcome them. Snowy calling to check up on you out of the blue. Iginlas profound impact on mentoring certain players. Craig just being Craig Conroy.
Well put. In addition to all of this, and maybe it's a string of ridiculously good luck, but their pro scouting seems to be on another level. Grabbing the likes of Verhaege, Bennett, Reinhart, Forsling who are all major pieces of their core, not to mention getting vets who have trailed off in their respective careers (Ekman-Larsson, Schmidt, Jones) to have a total resurgence.
I can't think of an organization in recent memory who has come remotely close to this level of talent recognition, and the acquisition costs have been pennies on the dollar.
Definitely this, but I also wonder if it's just a matter of being willing to try things. I was going over their rosters for the past 10 years, and they have their fair share of misses as well, but the ones that hit, really hit and those are the ones people remember. Kind of like drafting, more bullets in the chamber.
That's why I don't get when people say that we shouldn't have PTOs at camp or take on projects. Cast a wide net and see what you can catch.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Since 2009, only one team has won the Stanley Cup without a player on their roster drafted at #1 or #2. That is the St. Louis Blues, but they had JBouw (a #3 pick) and Pietrangelo (a #4 pick).
It's extraordinarily hard to win a Stanley Cup without first bottoming out. I wish that wasn't the way it is, but it seems to be.
__________________
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mathgod For This Useful Post:
