Rick Tocchet not returning as head coach of the Vancouver Canucks

[McG]

To be fair to both, Tocchet saw out the contract and then the Canucks offered a new (and presumably improved) one. No one has to sign. No one has to offer. Maybe tocchet doesn’t need or want the job or the situation.

I did read somewhere that the Canucks don’t have a dedicated practice facility, and the pwhl team was formed and then did whatever to immediately have one. I know real estate prices are different downtown from the PNE, but would it be that difficult to get a practice rink outside downtown? I also don’t think a coach would leave over that, but maybe…

[CalgaryFan1988]

I could see Tocchet in LA.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by McG

To be fair to both, Tocchet saw out the contract and then the Canucks offered a new (and presumably improved) one. No one has to sign. No one has to offer. Maybe tocchet doesn’t need or want the job or the situation.

The only other wrinkle is the team had an option for a third year, that they declined to use. So if they wanted to exercise that option, they could have compelled him to stay one more year.

[Sylvanfan]

At least Aquilini is challenging "Mary" Edwards for worst NHL owner of the 21st century.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by McG

To be fair to both, Tocchet saw out the contract and then the Canucks offered a new (and presumably improved) one. No one has to sign. No one has to offer. Maybe tocchet doesn’t need or want the job or the situation.

I did read somewhere that the Canucks don’t have a dedicated practice facility, and the pwhl team was formed and then did whatever to immediately have one. I know real estate prices are different downtown from the PNE, but would it be that difficult to get a practice rink outside downtown? I also don’t think a coach would leave over that, but maybe…

I think it's one of the more difficult markets to coach in due to the negative media and obnoxious hardcore fans. He may have not agreed with some of the roster moves of keeping Pettersson over Miller or the team just willing to let Boeser walk. I'm sure he has his reasons.

Canucks fans are strange. There's a large bandwagon contingent that only ride the bus when times are good and a harcore bunch that mirror the media with negativity. It just seems to be one circus after another and I'm sure that gets tiring for the players and the coaches.

[saillias]

How do you go from looking like an up and coming contender, to this. Top goalie, two 100 pt fwds, franchise D who will challenge for several Norris trophies, came shy of eliminating the oilers last year, to the pile of **** that they look like now. At least the Flames have good excuses for what happened. Vancouver just seems like something in the water made them turn on each other. Could everyone involved not have tried a little harder on and off the ice?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

He’s a coach-killer, and he’ll continue to be a coach-killer for whoever takes over from Tocchet.

I'll bite. What coach has he got killed?


Entire team quit on Green
Boudreau was killed by Allvin and Rutherford
Tocchet was offered a contract to stay.


Those are his NHL coaches.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Yeah, I rarely buy into coach-killer comments unless the player goes out into the media to publicly complain about the coach.. and especially if he does it with a 2nd coach. There were some (few, i believe, but some) that called Gaudreau and Tkachuk "Coach Killers" too, when what the truth really was about was the fact that Treliving couldn't hire a coach to save his life. Same thing with Iginla - terrible coach after terrible coach, but suddenly he got a rep for being a "Coach Killer".


However, I don't think Tocchet was a problem. It doesn't appear that he was anywhere close to being a solution either, and one could argue that is a problem in itself. It certainly feels like something is rotten from the top of the organization right down into the dressing room. I wonder how long they will try and hang around until they the enter another rebuild. This one didn't last long at all. From the outside looking in, it looked like a team with most of the pieces to become a contender sooner rather than later, and then "POOF!", things just undid themselves.



It will be interesting to see if they can salvage this in the next year or so. Hughes is the most important piece, and IIRC, he has already stated that he isn't interested in re-signing if the Canucks enter a rebuild. This gives Canucks exactly one year to turn things around. If they can't get him to re-sign next off-season, they will have to trade him with a year left on his deal.



If I am the Canucks, I am trading everyone and just entering a rebuild now. Timing is right given the talent at the top of the next 2-3 drafts.

[activeStick]

I believe you are incorrect that Hughes has ever said he wouldn't stick around if the Canucks enter a re-build, but that is widely speculated as his preference and so, it's assumed the Canucks need to be competing for the cup next season if they hope he extends.

We do know though, that Rutherford called Quinn and left him a voicemail within 30 minutes of his chat with Tocchet. Hughes hadn't called Rutherford back yet though at the time Rutherford had his press conference and for some odd reason felt he needed to share those details with the media .

[TOfan]

Interesting take from Drance this morning in the Athletic saying the Canucks need to double down and aggressively look for improvements this offseason to keep Hughes long term. Winning/competitiveness is their only shot. He believes they can do it with their cap space and draft capital.

Also stated the Canucks are the only team in the league without a training facility which irked Tocchet.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Interesting take from Drance this morning in the Athletic saying the Canucks need to double down and aggressively look for improvements this offseason to keep Hughes long term. Winning/competitiveness is their only shot. He believes they can do it with their cap space and draft capital.



Also stated the Canucks are the only team in the league without a training facility which irked Tocchet.

Drance's take is assumed by pretty much all Canuck fans though. Hughes is the best or second-best defencemen in the NHL depending on if you're asking a Canuck fan or a non-Canuck fan, who will remain in his prime for the full 7 or 8 years of his next contract and he'll want to spend those years on a team that contends for the cup during that window. After losing the trade with the Rangers by giving away a top 2 center (1st line on many teams) for a player with concussion history who is... now surprisingly out with a concussion, the Canucks will need to add a top center since their remaining candidate hasn't been one for over 12 months. They could've used the 1st they got in the Miller trade to try and include in a package for one, but in a panic, moved that for another Pettersson instead. They'll definitely be aggressive to add to their roster since keeping Hughes should be their priority.

Also, don't the Flames also not have a dedicated practice facility?

[Buff]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Also, don't the Flames also not have a dedicated practice facility?

Not right now, but soon.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Vancouver is a cursed team. They can't figure it out.

Wouldn't call it a curse. It's an issue of team culture. They've always attracted self-centered entitled players.

Since Linden, they haven't really had star players that are willing to do the work. The rest have always seemed more obsessed with their own standing.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by blankall

Wouldn't call it a curse. It's an issue of team culture. They've always attracted self-centered entitled players.

Since Linden, they haven't really had star players that are willing to do the work. The rest have always seemed more obsessed with their own standing.

Umm, Sedins?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Interesting take from Drance this morning in the Athletic saying the Canucks need to double down and aggressively look for improvements this offseason to keep Hughes long term. Winning/competitiveness is their only shot. He believes they can do it with their cap space and draft capital.

Also stated the Canucks are the only team in the league without a training facility which irked Tocchet.

This is one of the better free agent groups in recent history. Marner, Bennett and Ehlers are guys they could target but buyer beware on all three of them. Marner is going to command one of the largest contracts in the league. A team needs to make sure they will make the playoffs for the foreseeable future to get the best of Bennett. As for Ehlers you are getting a somewhat soft, injury prone, skilled player that may be risky to lock up long term. Still those three could all help a team like the Canucks.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Drance's take is assumed by pretty much all Canuck fans though. Hughes is the best or second-best defencemen in the NHL depending on if you're asking a Canuck fan or a non-Canuck fan, who will remain in his prime for the full 7 or 8 years of his next contract and he'll want to spend those years on a team that contends for the cup during that window. After losing the trade with the Rangers by giving away a top 2 center (1st line on many teams) for a player with concussion history who is... now surprisingly out with a concussion, the Canucks will need to add a top center since their remaining candidate hasn't been one for over 12 months. They could've used the 1st they got in the Miller trade to try and include in a package for one, but in a panic, moved that for another Pettersson instead. They'll definitely be aggressive to add to their roster since keeping Hughes should be their priority.

The Canucks had a massive hole on the backend for years, they had a #1 defenseman in Hughes and a whole bunch of nothing else with an inability to develop any quality defenders (and Benning trading away Forsling for Clendening less than a year after he was drafted, just when he started to show promise)

They are a team that has always been in a win now mode with a fan base that lacks patience for a rebuild, so they try and sign/trade their way into sneaking into the playoffs. Their drafting is brutal so they are trading from an area of strength to plug holes, all the while having to trade their draft picks to make up for their UFA signings not working out or trading away a contract (ie Mikheyev, Dickinson, Eriksson/Beagle/Rousell...)

They keep trying to buy their way out of trouble like a drunk with pay day loans. They trade for (a third round pick) and sign Dickinson and sign him to a contact, they then have to give up an asset to trade him (a second round pick) so that they can sign Mikheyev, who they then have to trade (for a second round pick) so that they can sign Heinen, Desharnais and Debrusk.

So they have traded two second round picks and a third for the ability to retain salary and sign more UFAs. The Canucks biggest problem is July 1 and thinking that this year will be any different than the past decade of poor signings.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Vancouver is a cursed team. They can't figure it out.

Not cursed. Entirely self-inflicted. Impatient, arrogant, terrible trade record, asshats throughout the organization, horrible fanbase, etc.

The Flames are cursed: the environment is always the opposite of what they need, external (uncontrollable) factors always derail them, the league disrespects them, when good things happen they happen at the wrong times, etc., etc., etc.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Umm, Sedins?

The Sedins were good players. They also had a lot of demands about how the team was structured/ran, their playing time, the roster, etc... I also wouldn't call them the types of players to get into the dirty places.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The Canucks had a massive hole on the backend for years, they had a #1 defenseman in Hughes and a whole bunch of nothing else with an inability to develop any quality defenders (and Benning trading away Forsling for Clendening less than a year after he was drafted, just when he started to show promise)

They are a team that has always been in a win now mode with a fan base that lacks patience for a rebuild, so they try and sign/trade their way into sneaking into the playoffs. Their drafting is brutal so they are trading from an area of strength to plug holes, all the while having to trade their draft picks to make up for their UFA signings not working out or trading away a contract (ie Mikheyev, Dickinson, Eriksson/Beagle/Rousell...)

They keep trying to buy their way out of trouble like a drunk with pay day loans. They trade for (a third round pick) and sign Dickinson and sign him to a contact, they then have to give up an asset to trade him (a second round pick) so that they can sign Mikheyev, who they then have to trade (for a second round pick) so that they can sign Heinen, Desharnais and Debrusk.

So they have traded two second round picks and a third for the ability to retain salary and sign more UFAs. The Canucks biggest problem is July 1 and thinking that this year will be any different than the past decade of poor signings.

To be fair, Demko, Hughes, and Pettersson (or at least when Pettersson was playing like a 40 goal/100 point centre) was a pretty good core to build around.

The Canucks asset management has been absolutely abysmal though. Since 2011, they've struggled to find good depth guys to sign and instead consistently overpaid for horrendous UFAs. Their trades have been equally bad.

They also suffered from some bad luck with the Demko injuries. Then they had all the drama with Miller/Boeser and then Miler/Pettersson, which led to moving Miller and getting a horrendous return for him.

There's talk now about the Aquillinis selling all or part of their interest.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by blankall

I also wouldn't call them the types of players to get into the dirty places.

Their entire career success was derived from their ability to work along the wall and in the corners to get the puck to the net.


They thrived in the dirty places. What they didn't do was play the body, but they worked in the dirty areas all the same.

Originally Posted by blankall

There's talk now about the Aquillinis selling all or part of their interest.

From Nik Kypreos. I'm not getting my hopes high on that one. There are a lot of rumours the Aquilini's are very cash poor right now, with only the Canucks actually generating them revenue. This means selling the team is probably not on the table, but penny pinching with the team is (like haggling over 200k on a rookie contract).