[News] The Athletic - NHL Owner Rankings - Murray Edwards 30th

[Calgary4LIfe]

This is exactly the reason why I was happy to see Treliving move on. This team did not see any sustained success under him. This team hasn't seen any sustained success since the 80's. Something needs to change here. it has been a below average team, and that's being generous since the first half of those 35 years saw less teams in the league. More than 50% of teams made the playoffs. You should see a finals - on average - of once every 16 years (now - more often prior to expansion). Flames had one finals in '04, and haven't had another third round appearance since '89. They were such a fun team to watch in the 80's though. What a powerhouse!



I posted in the PGT just a while ago, but maybe it is more relevant here. The Flames are getting a brand new shiny building mostly funded by taxpayer money. How would it look after 2 or 3 years when the new building smell wears off, and the team is still fairly mediocre and not looking promising? Those increased ticket costs can be rationalized by how much better the environment will be, but a losing product is a losing product. Flames need to make sure that they are either winning, or that they are selling hope. If it is a boring, mediocre team, I will wonder how long before the sellouts stop. I think it will probably take a couple of years at least, but at some point they will stop.

I still do think that this team was designed to fail this season. If that is still the plan, then I anticipate that further moves will be made in the off-season. I guess we will see. Wolf or not, this team can finish at the bottom of the standings. If you think otherwise, then I guess we will agree to disagree. Let's see what moves are made this off-season first before the argument commences. A couple more pegs traded away, and I think this building does collapse.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The bar is high, I see.

All it took was an almost entirely tax payer funded arena.

Yup and I'm pretty sure he moved to avoid paying a 1% tax increase.

Imagine moving away to avoid paying your fair share of taxes, then turning around and saying you want tax dollars to build an arena.

Awful ownership.

[Reggie Dunlop]

We should crowdfund a billboard shaming Edwards and the ownership group.

[Sylvanfan]

I could see Seravali writing an atical titled "There's something about Mary" where he criticizes Edward's to no end.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

God that's depressing to read. Three times out of the first round in 35 years? I know an argument against a tear it down rebuild is "gotta build a winning culture" but at what point in the past 3+ decades have we managed to build a winning culture? Pretty remarkable how loyal fans have stayed through all this.

The Flames have only made it to the 2nd round 8 times since moving to Calgary and three of those they made the final.

They didn't win a series between cup final runs, 89 to 04

Two of those were Treliving, lost in 5 games in the 2nd round both times. Can he get farther than that in Toronto?

[Matty81]

Not super surprising... the franchise never seems to have any sort of plan or vision to actually win a cup and always seems afraid to truly rebuild. Hard to tell if it's just fear of losing money for a couple seasons or what. Feels like ownership is always just hoping that we can sneak into the playoffs and sell more tickets short term and we end up with these mediocre but competitive teams that finish 14th-24th every year other than the stretch after the team got lucky with Tkachuk falling into their lap and horsehoed Gaudreau out of the late rounds.

The spending critique is totally unfair though, I think Murray would spend to the cap every season, he just needs to allow a GM with a true long term vision to win a cup to actually follow through on a plan to do that and get out of the way of hockey ops.

I don't think it's an irrelevant survey either, this is a survey of their customers and the Flames are a business - great if agents and players like you but ultimately if you don't have paying customers that doesn't mean jack - this is taking the pulse of the team's lifeblood.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by browna

Fanbase poll results?
Would be much more interested to hear player/employee and other executives.

The Athletic did something similar with their correspondents in every NHL market. Edwards didn’t rank 30th, but he was mid-20s.

We don’t have the worst ownership in the league, but we’re one tier up from the worst. Not coincidentally, that’s where the franchise ranks in on-ice success over the last 30 years as well.

Being in a small Canadian market is a handicap. Having bad ownership compounds that handicap. The Flames fanbase is eager to throw GMs under the bus (Conroy’s time will come too). But for whatever reason, most are unwilling to acknowledge the problem higher up.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Not super surprising... the franchise never seems to have any sort of plan or vision to actually win a cup and always seems afraid to truly rebuild. Hard to tell if it's just fear of losing money for a couple seasons or what. Feels like ownership is always just hoping that we can sneak into the playoffs and sell more tickets short term and we end up with these mediocre but competitive teams that finish 14th-24th every year other than the stretch after the team got lucky with Tkachuk falling into their lap and horsehoed Gaudreau out of the late rounds.

The spending critique is totally unfair though, I think Murray would spend to the cap every season, he just needs to allow a GM with a true long term vision to win a cup to actually follow through on a plan to do that and get out of the way of hockey ops.

I don't think it's an irrelevant survey either, this is a survey of their customers and the Flames are a business - great if agents and players like you but ultimately if you don't have paying customers that doesn't mean jack - this is taking the pulse of the team's lifeblood.

I think of the salary cap the same when you go to a restaurant with a group, you can either afford to eat there or not. There's no medal for paying your portion every time.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The bar is high, I see.

All it took was an almost entirely tax payer funded arena.

You should have turned this into a Murray Edwards haiku:

I see the bar’s high
Taxes fund the arena
And that’s all it took

[kobasew19]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

God that's depressing to read. Three times out of the first round in 35 years? I know an argument against a tear it down rebuild is "gotta build a winning culture" but at what point in the past 3+ decades have we managed to build a winning culture? Pretty remarkable how loyal fans have stayed through all this.

Yeah we are masochists.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Meh. Fan responses that are pretty much how has your team done lately.
TBU

Well that's even a bigger indictment on Edwards as how the Flames are doing lately has been more or less how they have done for the last 35 years. Where the 2024/25 Flames finish in the standings this season will be nearly exactly how they average out over three decades.

[VilleN]

I wonder with the state of the economy, people seem to be squeezed financially more than ever., if we start seeing empty seats. I make a pretty good income, yet I still basically live pay check to pay check (being divorced doesn't help matters) - I haven't been to a Flames game in 4 years, I simply can't rationalize that expense, and I have to assume there are more and more people in the same boat. If we had a winning team, with star players I would definitely be more likely to try and make it to a game.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I wonder with the state of the economy, people seem to be squeezed financially more than ever., if we start seeing empty seats. I make a pretty good income, yet I still basically live pay check to pay check (being divorced doesn't help matters) - I haven't been to a Flames game in 4 years, I simply can't rationalize that expense, and I have to assume there are more and more people in the same boat. If we had a winning team, with star players I would definitely be more likely to try and make it to a game.

The live NHL experience stopped being about the average fan a long time ago. It’s aimed at corporate boxes and STH, and the wealthiest 10 per cent.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Has anyone ever worked for CNRL? Cheapest cut corner mother#####er

Even their employees refer to themselves as:

C3nts
No one
Really
Likes.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Has anyone ever worked for CNRL? Cheapest cut corner mother#####er

I've negotiated with CNRL, they'll waste $100K of time to save $5 on supplies.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Ped

Bottom 5:
Blue Jackets
Blackhawks
Flames
Canucks
Sabres

Bottom 5:
Blue Jackets - aside from this year, a complete disaster from owners
Blackhawks - rapist stuff and still dealing with rapist stuff
Flames -
Canucks - property developer that happens to own a hockey team
Sabres - i can't even.....

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

God that's depressing to read. Three times out of the first round in 35 years? I know an argument against a tear it down rebuild is "gotta build a winning culture" but at what point in the past 3+ decades have we managed to build a winning culture? Pretty remarkable how loyal fans have stayed through all this.

This is exactly why i don't understand fans that did not want to tank this year, you want more of this?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

I think of the salary cap the same when you go to a restaurant with a group, you can either afford to eat there or not. There's no medal for paying your portion every time.

Exactly.

Should Edwards get credit for spending to the cap when nearly 90-95% of teams have done so, historically?

That’s just showing up for class. Might get you a C, perhaps a B on a good year, but it takes more than showing up to get an A. I also suspect, in the Flames case, spending to the cap has been bit of a smokescreen as far as appearances go. ‘See, we’re trying!’…..no you’re not.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

God that's depressing to read. Three times out of the first round in 35 years? I know an argument against a tear it down rebuild is "gotta build a winning culture" but at what point in the past 3+ decades have we managed to build a winning culture? Pretty remarkable how loyal fans have stayed through all this.

I am glad other people are finally coming around to this exact point.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

God that's depressing to read. Three times out of the first round in 35 years? I know an argument against a tear it down rebuild is "gotta build a winning culture" but at what point in the past 3+ decades have we managed to build a winning culture? Pretty remarkable how loyal fans have stayed through all this.

Guys like Sharp, Keith and Seabrook got filled in and they got Toews and Kane and won a cup with them a few years later.