[Signing] Ducks re-sign Frank Vatrano (3 years, $4.57m AAV, deferred salary)

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Weitz

This has been in the CBA since like 2013. It’s just rarely used. The interest wasn’t fabvourable till now.

and? As it starts to be abused more they will fix it like everything else. One team does it and everyone else is forced to do the same to be competitive. It will just get dumber and dumber until they fix it.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It is, the contracts and the cap arent intended to be used this way. It will be corrected in the next CBA. Having current contracts pay out until 2045 is not something the league will want

It is specifically allowed with rules of how to calculate the present day value of the deferred payments. It is being used specifically as intended, as the cap is not circumvented. It’s not like in reality Vatrano’s contract is worth $18M .

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

and? As it starts to be abused more they will fix it like everything else. One team does it and everyone else is forced to do the same to be competitive. It will just get dumber and dumber until they fix it.

It’s is not abuse, Anaheim is not artificially reducing the cap hit.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Weitz

This has been in the CBA since like 2013. It’s just rarely used. The interest wasn’t fabvourable till now.

Everybody just has to come to terms with a couple of standard rules and everything will be alright

1. Sometimes players get miraculous injuries where they are disabled long term so badly that their pay does not count against the cap, then, magically at playoff time, they are 100% ok.

2. AAV does NOT equal total money paid, divided by years played (to a max of 7 or 8 depending on the team they play with)

These aren’t loopholes, they are long time built in features

[Enoch Root]

No other contracts can go beyond 8 years - it is cap manipulation, and I will be shocked if they don't eliminate this in the next CBA.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No other contracts can go beyond 8 years - it is cap manipulation, and I will be shocked if they don't eliminate this in the next CBA.

So then why did they put it in the CBA?

[dino7c]

Call it what you want...IMO it will be fixed.

Nobody with the league wants contracts that are playing out for the next 20-30 years

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So then why did they put it in the CBA?

You are acting like nothing in the CBA has ever been changed lol

[Paulie Walnuts]

It will be fixed in the next lockout. Term will be reduced and I think trade protection is altered. The NHL wants player movement you don’t get that when a good portion of the league has trade clauses.

I suspect they let the players keep 50% HRR as an offering.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You are acting like nothing in the CBA has ever been changed lol

You guys are acting like this is some loophole a team found and not something outlined as acceptable in the CBA.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No other contracts can go beyond 8 years - it is cap manipulation, and I will be shocked if they don't eliminate this in the next CBA.

How is the cap being manipulated ?

Why do you care if Vatrano gets 4.57 today vs the same equivalent amount in a decade ?

The cap hit is 4.57 either way

There are some small rounding advantages I imagine

1. Teams can probably get a higher guaranteed ROI on the funds they set aside to cover the deferrals then the rate they use to calculate current value . The dodgers apparently are saving millions on the arbitrage from the 1$ billion they deferred

2. A player may take a few % points less on the contract if the team defers (total real value of contract ) because they will more then make up for it in tax savings long term . This is where a very small cap savings could come into play , but it would be 1-2% of the salary

The contract isnt running more then 8 right in the sense they don’t divide the contract amount by more the 8 - they divide by 3

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Call it what you want...IMO it will be fixed.

Nobody with the league wants contracts that are playing out for the next 20-30 years

Actually I think your 100% wrong

Players and Owners both love this . The high tax states are the only ones who don’t like it

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Weitz

You guys are acting like this is some loophole a team found and not something outlined as acceptable in the CBA.

And you're acting like contracts (collective bargaining agreements, in this case) never get updated or changed when they see things happen that differ from their intentions.

Do you not recall that teams started having back-diving contracts? That was also 'acceptable in the CBA" at the time. Then they started happening, and getting worse and worse, so they got nixed in the next CBA.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Actually I think your 100% wrong

Players and Owners both love this . The high tax states are the only ones who don’t like it

It will a the very least be limited, bump this later...I know for a fact the league doesn't like kicking cans down the road this far

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t know what players love having money 10 years from now. It’s likely a small percentage.

Most want the millions now. It could also be a player thing that they want this removed.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And you're acting like contracts (collective bargaining agreements, in this case) never get updated or changed when they see things happen that differ from their intentions.

But what is happening is exactly as intended. No cap circumvention is happening, and players are protected from idiocy.

[Strange Brew]

It’s not cap circumvention and I don’t understand why people are clamoring for it to be “fixed”.

It is designed to circumvent state taxes. I’m assuming most people don’t care about that.

Why do people care whether a player is due money after their playing career. The contract is valued over the term of the playing years, just like contracts with no deferred money. And in fact, I would imagine the contract stipulates that the money needs to be set aside in a secure investment vehicle, so no actual cash savings for the club.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I don’t know what players love having money 10 years from now. It’s likely a small percentage.

Most want the millions now. It could also be a player thing that they want this removed.

Why would players want it removed? They aren’t force to take deferred payments.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No other contracts can go beyond 8 years - it is cap manipulation, and I will be shocked if they don't eliminate this in the next CBA.

It’s deferred money. The contract doesn’t go beyond 8 years.

A lot of employers have deferred comp arrangements, which are of value to people should they move to lower tax states in retirement (and be in lower federal tax bracket).

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It will a the very least be limited, bump this later...I know for a fact the league doesn't like kicking cans down the road this far

You realize this isn’t “kicking down the road” like an actual per year contract right ?

The team had to set aside the money is a guaranteed fund covering exactly all future payouts .

It is a 3 year contract . All funds paid as a 3 year contract . But instead of some of the funds going to Vatrano they stay in a segregated account until it is more tax effective for them to be paid to him