[Kent Wilson Article] “self-satisfied mediocrity”

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Again, words over actions.

He brought in Miromanov and Kuzmenko because their teams were throw them in just to get rid of them, and he thinks they're worth something. And much as it continually seems to surprise some fans, you are legally required to ice a roster for both your NHL and AHL games.

Would you prefer he had made the Lindholm and Hanifin for the exact same packages of futures, but without Kuzmenko and Miromanov? I mean, making a worse trade would make the team suck harder, and that's the purpose of the game, right?

I am joking.

I have been saying that this is a rebuild for a long time, look at the trades those are rebuild trades. Not a we will make the playoffs next season trades.

Just because he said our goal is to compete for a playoff spot, people think that is what we are doing.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I am joking.

Oh, what a relief! I was afraid you were serious.

I have been saying that this is a rebuild for a long time, look at the trades those are rebuild trades. Not a we will make the playoffs next season trades.

Just because he said our goal is to compete for a playoff spot, people think that is what we are doing.

Thank you! Someone gets it.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's not what I said at all. I said that RIGHT NOW, even with the salary cap, many players don't wish to play in Canada (and have contract clauses to enforce that wish), and small markets have less revenue capacity than big ones. Calgary is a small-market Canadian team and will always operate at a disadvantage.

1993 has absolutely nothing to do with it. Stop lying about what I'm saying and read my goddamn posts.



So in other words, you're going to ignore all their actions until they do something you can't ignore.

I'd hate to work for you. I could slave away my whole life without ever getting credit for anything.

Sorry, wouldn't hire you. You'd have to believe an organization could strategically move towards desired outcomes first.

[ReinhartonD]

I don't think ownership should be worrying so hard about fans abandoning the ship if the team isn't competing for playoffs, but then again, it's not my money. Part of this also is impacted about when the new arena will actually open. If it's after two more years, then that's a pretty fair timeline to get some high picks, unload some guys who are pending UFAs either early or at the deadline--Mangiapane and Kuzmenko come to mind--and give Zary ice time in lots of different situations to continue to develop into what we all hope he can be.

I would try to resign Sharangovich, but if the price looks to high then there's another deadline asset. I'm not sure what to think about the goaltending. I think Markie's too valuable a trade chip to keep and it's no guarantee his game would be still at his current level when they want to be competitive. Vladar's a free agent after this year, so if they trade Markstrom, probably just add some journeyman who can keep the scores from getting too embarrassing.

Weegar's signed forever, and he and Andersson will be the D-core stalwarts next year--but there's going to have to be some base-level NHL bolstering that won't likely cause the point totals to rise too much. This could be done with some salary cap dumps from other teams that the Flames actually get paid to take.

What do you want to do with Kadri? Maybe the way he played last season makes him attractive to other teams without a sweetener, but maybe he's a good guy to keep around to help the younger forwards.

And Wilson's so very right about weaponizing cap space. We should be going into a bunch of drafts with a boatload of picks going forward.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Sorry, wouldn't hire you. You'd have to believe an organization could strategically move towards desired outcomes first.

It depends on the organization and the desired outcome. You wouldn't start a wildcat oil company in (say) Belgium, because there's no oil to speak of in the country. You wouldn't start a shipyard in Saskatchewan because it's landlocked. And if you wanted to start up a professional sports team with the goal of maximizing your odds of winning a championship, and had your free choice of locations, you would not put it in Calgary.

Have you ever heard of Ricardo's Law of Comparative Advantage?

[Jason14h]

I certainly wouldn’t hire you as head analogy maker

[dissentowner]

Oh no, Kent Wilson finally came out of the Oilers closet, shocking! Nothing to see here.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I certainly wouldn’t hire you as head analogy maker

I'm giving you a better quality of analogies than you're paying for. Now dry up.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It depends on the organization and the desired outcome. You wouldn't start a wildcat oil company in (say) Belgium, because there's no oil to speak of in the country. You wouldn't start a shipyard in Saskatchewan because it's landlocked. And if you wanted to start up a professional sports team with the goal of maximizing your odds of winning a championship, and had your free choice of locations, you would not put it in Calgary.

Have you ever heard of Ricardo's Law of Comparative Advantage?

It was a joke.
Anyways, all I'm saying is the Flames have given everyone plenty of reason to suspect they may not be an organization that commits to tear down style rebuilds. Not least because they've repeated that publicly time and time again. I do and have given Conroy lots of credit for his moves last season, its exactly what I've been wanting to see. But its just the first step. I hope you are right and what they've been saying isn't what they end up doing. Striving for the playoffs in the short term won't do this franchise any good, so I hope they don't make any moves that are short sighted. Draft position matters a great deal in the next couple of years. I would like the Flames to factor that in. That's all I'm saying, and I think a lot of fans feel that way. It would be nice to be excited about a premium draft pick and franchise player in Calgary. They have a chance to make it happen.

[Paulie Walnuts]

A complete tear down is almost impossible with the contracts we have.

He traded what he could get value for. Now we are stuck with Kadri and Huberdeau. Coleman probably has some value but I doubt he wants out.

We need to keep Weegar we still need to ice a lineup and comply with the salary floor.

Really only Mangiapane, Backlund and Andersson. Only Andersson has value.

I’m sure Markstrom is good as gone so not putting him on the list.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

A complete tear down is almost impossible with the contracts we have.

He traded what he could get value for. Now we are stuck with Kadri and Huberdeau. Coleman probably has some value but I doubt he wants out.

We need to keep Weegar we still need to ice a lineup and comply with the salary floor.

Really only Mangiapane, Backlund and Andersson. Only Andersson has value.

I’m sure Markstrom is good as gone so not putting him on the list.

That's about the size of it.

Kadri is probably tradeable with retention, but my God! Five years of dead cap space is not a problem you want to saddle yourself with. If (supposing the impossible) I were in Murray Edwards' shoes, and Conroy came to me asking permission to trade Kadri with maximum retention. I would say to him, very crisply and drily: ‘That is not a problem that I want your successor to have to deal with.’

Conroy may say he's not tearing down to the studs, but the studs are already showing in spots and there's not that much more tearing down to do. The real question is how he will go about building back up again.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Conroy may say he's not tearing down to the studs, but the studs are already showing in spots and there's not that much more tearing down to do. The real question is how he will go about building back up again

This is the key. I have full faith in Craig Conroy, but it remains to be seen.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Kent Wilson’s latest article is worth a read.

No it isn’t.

Kent is like a broken clock, he’s correct twice a day.

If he thinks Edmonton is “better” by being morally, ethically, & socially bankrupt then relying on luck & every possible way that they can complain to the league for things to go their way, he can live there, write for Oilers Nation, or both.

I don’t care what has or will happen, they’re a wretched embarrassment of an organization.

There is nothing they won’t cannibalize or sell their soul for to get ahead.

No thanks.

[Yamer]

The guy who wrote an entire article about the "Kulak miscalculation"? Didn't he also announce his "retirement" regarding Flames journalism at some point?

Pass.

[420since1974]

My take is that Backlund, Huberdeau, and Kadri are here for the duration of their contracts.
That precludes that Flames from "tearing it down to the studs".
If Calgary does not finish in the bottom 10 next season, Montreal will take the Flame's first round pick instead of Florida's.
To avoid that scenario, I would trade Mangaipane, Markstrom, and Kuzmenko a.s.a.p. (certainly no later than the TDL).
Mangiapane was a 6th round draft pick, Markstrom was signed as a UFA, and Kuzmenko was a salary dump by Vancouver in the Lindholm trade.
Calgary has very little invested except for money so pretty much anything the Flames receive in return for them would be a win (asset management wise).
Heck, I'm even willing to endure the pain of losing short term so that the Flames can draft in the Top 10 three years in a row.
That may well help to have an exciting team when the new arena opens in 2027.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I always wonder with the Flames if the ownership are just very afraid deep down that attendance will crater if they are bad for a few years and think their bottom line is just better off with at least being remotely in the playoff race every year rather than going through those lean years where they have to endure a lot of empty seats.

I don’t think that’s the reason for the reluctance to rebuild. I think the issue is Edwards’ ego and need to win. That outlook has served him well in business. But it’s not well suited to a pro sports league designed to be cyclical. Especially a small-market Canadian franchise, where building through the draft is essential.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What other team trades their top two forwards, top defensive pairing, and prepares to trade their #1 goaltender with no bonafide solution behind them… and still isn’t “tearing it down”?

What does tearing it down look like vs what the Flames have done? I’m genuinely asking. Is it just that they’re also collecting young players on the cheap that are better than their AHL guys?

They tried to re-sign half those guys.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

They tried to re-sign half those guys.

They offered them deals that were nowhere near what the players wanted or would accept.

So yeah, they really "tried"

[TheScorpion]

They offered Lindholm $8m+ a year!!

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

They offered Lindholm $8m+ a year!!

Long before his value plummeted and my statement still stands. It was much less than what he wanted at the time.

I bet he's kicking himself now though.