The Flames Are Not Rebuilding: A Safe Space to Vent

[The Yen Man]

I.... don't really get this thread? Wasn't the trade the definition of rebuilding? You may not like the pieces that came back, but what part of the trade wasn't signaling a rebuild? They traded an older guy with 1 year left that they had no interest in extending for a pick and a guy 7 years younger. How is that NOT a step towards rebuilding?

[NewFan]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

In a redraft of 2018 draft class based on points Yegor is 8th and 4th in goals, he is essentially a first rounder. We got a first and third for a 31 year old pending UFA that requested a trade openly. The chances of a 1st round pick in the 25-32 range getting 53 goals after 200 games is very low.

Toffoli was never getting us a 1st round pick in the 2023 draft.

And he is not core or main player for future flames.
He will play tons of minute and will be traded for next transition player or draft pick.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I.... don't really get this thread? Wasn't the trade the definition of rebuilding? You may not like the pieces that came back, but what part of the trade wasn't signaling a rebuild? They traded an older guy with 1 year left that they had no interest in extending for a pick and a guy 7 years younger. How is that NOT a step towards rebuilding?

I’d call it a half measure. Draft picks and prospects are rebuilding.

Honestly, other than an expansion team, are there any successful teams right now that have traded their way there instead of using high draft picks from a few rebuilding years? Other than the Rangers who get gifted players like Panarin and Fox, and even then they drafted twice in the top 2

[SportsJunky]

I'm too old to wait for a rebuild. Good work Conroy. Stanley or bust!

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

You may not like the pieces that came back, but what part of the trade wasn't signaling a rebuild?

Probably trading for a 25 year old with 3 years experience and not a high draft pick or some highly touted prospect.

I'm not part of the rebuild or bust crowd but I wouldn't really say it signals the Flames are going into a rebuild. I see it more as they're trying to get younger but still compete for a playoff spot which is what Conroy suggested when he was hired.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I.... don't really get this thread? Wasn't the trade the definition of rebuilding? You may not like the pieces that came back, but what part of the trade wasn't signaling a rebuild? They traded an older guy with 1 year left that they had no interest in extending for a pick and a guy 7 years younger. How is that NOT a step towards rebuilding?

The scorched earth crowd wants everybody sold off for 2023 1st rounders (hint: there are likely none available) with the Flames retaining 50% salary.

Ain't happening their way, so it's not a "rebuild". It has to LOOK right y'see.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Yeah, I'm weird. I want the team I support to actually build towards something resembling success instead of just trying to placate me with "stay the course" moves that lead the franchise nowhere.

But this is it in a nutshell: There are a lot of Flames fans like you who will take mediocrity and like it. Well, until they get bored and move on.

Does the “don’t spend money on this team” crowd that does nothing but complain actually think they’re any more worthy of the “fan” title than casuals that get bored and move on?

Really do you support the team? Because you don’t cheer for them… and if you’re paying for seasons tickets for a product you don’t enjoy… the joke is on you.

The nice thing about actually enjoying hockey and knowing that winning, since it’s completely out of your control, is a bonus, is that you actually don’t get bored. And you don’t get hung up on off-season stuff because as fun as it is to evaluate trades and draft picks and talk rumours or whatever, the game is played on the ice.

No disrespect to a lot of guys on the board who are just emotional. I get it. You’re in for the highs and lows. Lots of them here. But guys who just seem miserable about the team and advocate not spending a dime on them? I don’t get it. That defeats the entire point of being a fan. I’m not one just to say I am, I want to actually go watch games and cheer for even pointless wins.

Everyone wants the team to succeed. There’s a difference between wanting it and needing it before you can actually enjoy yourself.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I.... don't really get this thread? Wasn't the trade the definition of rebuilding? You may not like the pieces that came back, but what part of the trade wasn't signaling a rebuild? They traded an older guy with 1 year left that they had no interest in extending for a pick and a guy 7 years younger. How is that NOT a step towards rebuilding?

We'll see how the rest of the deals do (or don't go) but to me with this deal I get the impression that the team still thinks they will be competing for a play-off spot next season, if you are trying to compete for the play-offs you are not rebuilding.

I would also say that a 25 year old player with 3 NHL seasons is not a prospect, not a player for the future and not any part of a rebuild.

[Mr.Coffee]

Flames strategy is unclear, at a time it couldn’t be clearer as to what it should be. Ultimately, that’s the problem, and it’s coming from ownership because of money.

And really when it comes to money, Edwards has enough. I really hope one day soon he sells the team. Prob after the building is made and then he can finally F off to Europe forever and avoid paying what he rightfully should after pillaging our province and abusing the oil and gas sector the way he has. The guys more like a supervillain now than an actual business person.

[memphusk]

Bitter Betty's in here.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Bitter Betty's in here.

This draft is huge for me as a fan, to be honest.

But, I say that and I am sure I’ll be there next season on cold lonely nights, continuing the abuse this team feeds me.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Bitter Betty's in here.

Excuse me sir, this is a safe place

[Jbo]

No matter what the team does, there are going to be people that complain. What can you do

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jbo

No matter what the team does, there are going to be people that complain. What can you do

Disagree. If the Toffoli trade would have come with a 1st, reaction would be way better.

By far. It actually is the difference in strategic direction, to be honest. Even if it is slight.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I’d call it a half measure. Draft picks and prospects are rebuilding.

Honestly, other than an expansion team, are there any successful teams right now that have traded their way there instead of using high draft picks from a few rebuilding years? Other than the Rangers who get gifted players like Panarin and Fox, and even then they drafted twice in the top 2

You just can’t have all draft picks and prospects. If they did they’d end up just signing a bunch of UFAs to fill out the roster.

This kid will be 27-28 when anyone drafted now or next year is an NHL player. So he will be part of a rebuild team if that’s the way they go.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Flames strategy is unclear, at a time it couldn’t be clearer as to what it should be. Ultimately, that’s the problem, and it’s coming from ownership because of money.

And really when it comes to money, Edwards has enough. I really hope one day soon he sells the team. Prob after the building is made and then he can finally F off to Europe forever and avoid paying what he rightfully should after pillaging our province and abusing the oil and gas sector the way he has. The guys more like a supervillain now than an actual business person.

I think the strategy is clear.
You just don't like it.
Which is fine. It's not the strategy I would execute either.
But i find it odd that people don't think it's clear what they are doing.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think the strategy is clear.
You just don't like it.
Which is fine. It's not the strategy I would execute either.
But i find it odd that people don't think it's clear what they are doing.

That’s fair. It’s unclear to me why they are doing it, I guess.

What strategy would you employ?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That’s fair. It’s unclear to me why they are doing it, I guess.

What strategy would you employ?

I would re-build.
But I've accepted they aren't and find it dull to constantly frustrate myself hoping for them to do something they've stated they aren't going to do. I find that pretty pointless.

[Beninho]

I’ll say they are not rebuilding after I see the possible returns for Lindholm and Hanifin. Market for Toffoli may not have been very hot. People here are acting like they just gave Toffoli a long term contract.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I’ll say they are not rebuilding after I see the possible returns for Lindholm and Hanifin. Market for Toffoli may not have been very hot.

EDIT: Realize you weren't speaking about a first being available, just commenting on the overall market for him...

I think it's doubtful a first was in the cards for him. For 2023 picks I think it would have had to been a late pick, from a team that needed/wanted him and had the cap space. NJD doesn't have a 2023 first. And I don't see him being a fit for other teams with late 1sts.

So then you are looking at a 2024 1st, and I don't think he's the type of player the teams will trade a pick with unknown value for.

When the Flames traded a 1st at the deadline for him, it was knowing it would be a late one. So yes - maybe you could have waited and gotten that at the deadline IF he had stayed healthy and IF he had produced still. Lots of risks there.

But right now - I don't think a first was coming for him.

I bet you could have gotten a 2nd but then not the player.