The Calgary Flames "goalie killers" Jordan Sigalet (and now) Jason LaBarbera

[shadowlord]

Originally Posted by Number 39

In the case of Markstom it seems like more of an issue for a sports psychologist rather than a goaltending coach from where I sit. Perhaps thats a role that should be more closely examined with this team’s history.

Do the Flames have a sports psychologist on staff?

[Number 39]

A quick glance at the staff directory shows they have several people involved in the mental aspects of performance…..I assume they are competent but yet mental toughness hasn't exactly been a calling card for this team pretty much forever.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by badradio

I never understood average goalies like Labarbra coaching elite goalies… I would want an elite goalie coaching my goalies.

Those who can't do...teach?

[tkflames]

I think Sigalet is actually very effective at identifying talent (outside of the dreaded Schneider or Demko decision). I think the Flames recognize this, hence the restructuring of the department last year with Labarbara coming in.

However, there is something systematically rotten that causes goalies to struggle in the Flames system. Not sure if it is:
1. Misalignment between the strategy (depth of goalie in the net) and the type of chances we give up.
2. Misalignment of goalie personality/focus vs quantity of shots we give up (note that all of our #1 goalies came from high shot volume against teams, allowing goalies to get comfortable/recover from a bad sequence more quickly perhaps).
3. Psychological support/management of goalies
4. Use of Video/Practice or some other influence.

Or we are the unluckiest team in the world to bring in goalies who have a great first year and then deteriorate toward oblivion (Hiller, Elliott, Smith, Markstrom).

Prior to Luongo, Vancouver had the reputation of being a goalie graveyard. They invested significantly to shore up all aspects of that position (including coaching, decelopment, sports pyschology, sports phsyiology) and have since been a goalie factory. In this department...I believe we are bottom 10 (maybe bottom 5) in the league at this point and likewise need a significant focus...

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by badradio

Goaltending is tough gig and you really need a support system and someone who understands sports psychology to work with the goaltenders. I was always a fan of David Marcoux… he seemed to understand the mental aspect and out of the box training techniques…

I never understood average goalies like Labarbra coaching elite goalies… I would want an elite goalie coaching my goalies.

I agree with the psychology arguement but disagree with the sentiment on average goalies. The best coaches are all mediocre players (Berube, Sutter,...). The best players have been terrible coaches (see Gretzky for example). Always found those peculiar and suspect it has something to do with natural talents having to spend less time on the mechanics of how to be successful. It comes to them more natural - they don't have to disect it the same way. A mediocre player is in or out of the NHL depending on whether he can break skills into subtasks that can be practiced through hard work and therefore better explained??? It's a theory...not necessarily a fact for the cause...but the trend is definitely real...

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I agree with the psychology arguement but disagree with the sentiment on average goalies. The best coaches are all mediocre players (Berube, Sutter,...). The best players have been terrible coaches (see Gretzky for example). Always found those peculiar and suspect it has something to do with natural talents having to spend less time on the mechanics of how to be successful. It comes to them more natural - they don't have to disect it the same way. A mediocre player is in or out of the NHL depending on whether he can break skills into subtasks that can be practiced through hard work and therefore better explained??? It's a theory...not necessarily a fact for the cause...but the trend is definitely real...

Two goalie coaches that Flames fans want:

Mitch Korn: Played Junior and College. Never played in the NHL. Not elite.
Ian Clark: Played in the BCJHL. Never played in the NHL. Not elite.

Like you said, some of best coaches were mediocre players and some of the best players were mediocre coaches. Kipper could decide to take the goalie coaching job and not make any improvement.

Some people are just better at seeing the game than they were playing it.

[badradio]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I agree with the psychology arguement but disagree with the sentiment on average goalies. The best coaches are all mediocre players (Berube, Sutter,...). The best players have been terrible coaches (see Gretzky for example). Always found those peculiar and suspect it has something to do with natural talents having to spend less time on the mechanics of how to be successful. It comes to them more natural - they don't have to disect it the same way. A mediocre player is in or out of the NHL depending on whether he can break skills into subtasks that can be practiced through hard work and therefore better explained??? It's a theory...not necessarily a fact for the cause...but the trend is definitely real...

That makes sense to me, but goaltending coaches are a different animal. It’s all one on one for the most part. It’s just a theory, I imagine it all comes down to finding the right personal chemistry between the coach and the goalie. That said David Marcoux never even played hockey lol.

[midniteowl]

Whatever happened to that coach who coached Kipper? For the life of me, I could not recall his name.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Whatever happened to that coach who coached Kipper? For the life of me, I could not recall his name.

David Marcoux

He hasn't coached in the NHL since 2017. He coaches IHA U18 Prep now.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Just like how there are incredible producers that wouldn't have an ounce of talent for creating something from scratch themselves

They take what those with talent bring to them and arrange and modify what's needed to end up with a winning finalized product

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Inferno

David Marcoux

He hasn't coached in the NHL since 2017. He coaches IHA U18 Prep now.

Marcoux’s last couple years here Kipper sunk to barely above .900. Marcoux left and he bounced back to .920 (though the year after that back to .906).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I agree with the psychology arguement but disagree with the sentiment on average goalies. The best coaches are all mediocre players (Berube, Sutter,...). The best players have been terrible coaches (see Gretzky for example). Always found those peculiar and suspect it has something to do with natural talents having to spend less time on the mechanics of how to be successful. It comes to them more natural - they don't have to disect it the same way. A mediocre player is in or out of the NHL depending on whether he can break skills into subtasks that can be practiced through hard work and therefore better explained??? It's a theory...not necessarily a fact for the cause...but the trend is definitely real...

Sutter was a damned good player. Not elite but way above average. Jacques Lemaire was a top line centre on maybe the best team of all time and an elite coach. Carlyle, Robinson, Gallant, Brindamour, pretty decent coaches and very good players. Definitely some elite players don’t have a coaching mindset. But some are students of the game. I do think some present NHL stars might be good coaches but they make so much money now they just retire.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I used to think it was Sigalet.

It’s Sutter

His goalies can’t stop difficult shots because his team doesn’t practice them

Just kidding


Sort of

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I mean you've got a point

Having C to D-grade shots lobbed at you every practice probably doesn't do much to warm you up for players with scoring ability trying to score

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

All our goalies seem to play deeper in the net, go down earlier, and play a predominantly closed butterfly style. It has to be a factor of coaching at some point.

As said that’s just goaltending, it’s a factor of statistics.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Call up Mackenzie Skapski.

[combustiblefuel]

I d9nt remeber Talbot being that good here. Ramo was untill he got messed up.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Marcoux’s last couple years here Kipper sunk to barely above .900. Marcoux left and he bounced back to .920 (though the year after that back to .906).

Correlate that with Keenan and you’re on to something

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I d9nt remeber Talbot being that good here. Ramo was untill he got messed up.

Talbot had a .919 that season

Until the last couple seasons when scoring ballooned, .915 was an average starter's save percentage and he was above that

I think what you remember is probably game 6 against Dallas

It was somewhat of a microcosm, but the eventual collapse did technically occur with him as well


Ramo was the only real consistent guy here. .911, .912, and a .909

He was treated as a backup, but he was at least steady. From what I recall, he gave a good performance when he took over the net against the Ducks in 2015 and should have been in net the whole series (was too little, too late)

Just like Vladar should have been after game 2 of the BOA

We always go down with the sinking goalie though, don't we?

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I used to think it was Sigalet.

It’s Sutter

His goalies can’t stop difficult shots because his team doesn’t practice them

Just kidding


Sort of

The funny thing is that the flames goalies are decent at difficult shots and suck at low quality shots...