Student gets visit from Homeland Security over "Red" library book

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by arsenal

Do you honestly think that banning hand guns will stop people from getting shot? All it will do is keep hand guns out of law abiding citizens, and in the hands of criminals.

I couldn't disagree more. The easiest way to stop deaths from guns is to stop selling them. People can't shoot people if they don't have guns. The harder you make it for criminals to get guns the better. Every criminal gun is coming from a store that a "law abiding citizen" bought it from. What purpose do handguns serve? Protection? Protection from what? Other people with guns thats who.

[Vulcan]

I gotta agree with arsenal about handguns, I mean in my trailer, if she's shooting at me from the livingroom shouldn't I be allowed to return fire from the kitchen.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I gotta agree with arsenal about handguns, I mean in my trailer, if she's shooting at me from the livingroom shouldn't I be allowed to return fire from the kitchen.

Why is she shooting at you? You're much less likely to be shot at if they aren't worried about you shooting them.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

Why is she shooting at you? You're much less likely to be shot at if they aren't worried about you shooting them.

I was being
Facetious 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately

2:meant to be humorous or funny : not serious

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Facetious 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately

2:meant to be humorous or funny : not serious

My mistake. There are people who would have stated that seriously (ie. arsenal). Some sort of signal (j/k, , , etc.) might have been useful. . Although it is unlikely that they would have used a trailer in their example, I suppose. Sometimes when you get so focused on beating your head against a wall you miss these little clues.

[arsenal]

man, even i knew he was calling me a yokel.
And in my trailer, she don't get no handgun.. it interferes with the dish washing oh, i am kidding by the way. I don't live in a trailer.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by arsenal

Yes, I don't need nor want the government to protect me, To hold my hand. I am able to make my own decisions. If I want to buy a hand gun, I should be able to. If i want to buy a car that will cost me thousands of dollars to repair if i crash it 10 km/h, i want that choice. The way things are going, I will not be able to make that choice. Right now, there have been many choices made for me already.

And have you even read the book 1984?

So you obviously believe in Gay marriage rights, legalizing marijuana, pro choice and all those other good issues then. Great.

[RatherDashing]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I couldn't disagree more. The easiest way to stop deaths from guns is to stop selling them. People can't shoot people if they don't have guns. The harder you make it for criminals to get guns the better. Every criminal gun is coming from a store that a "law abiding citizen" bought it from. What purpose do handguns serve? Protection? Protection from what? Other people with guns thats who.

No way, you have to have guns. What are you supposed to do if some psycho walks up to you and says something crazy, like "you're fired."?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

the owning of handguns is the one thing that I think the US has that Canada should. I mean we should be able to carry consealed automatic weapons around... I mean, what if the King of England was to come up to one of us and start pushing us around? Do you want that? Well... do you?

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by Flame On

So you obviously believe in Gay marriage rights, legalizing marijuana, pro choice and all those other good issues then. Great.

Actually I do. Shocker huh? That being said, if a woman wants to abort her child, that is up to her. That is no business of the governments. And I don't really care of gay people want to get married. Doesn't affect me. If they find someone that they want to spend the rest of their lives with, good on them. The only thing the government should have their hand in is the legalization of Marijuana.
Glad you guys are choosing the easiest argument, and ignoring the others. But hey, it's all good
And it isn't so much the handgun, as that is one less choice I have. 1 more thing the government controls. It's the principle. Not so much the actual action. And if you can't see that, then I can't help you. You are too busy looking in front of you to notice the semi comming in on your flank.

What comes after handguns? Alchohol? Possibly, more people die of alchohol related deaths than hand guns. The only way to stop anyone from getting killed by a drunk driver, outlaw alchohol. And even then it is not 100% garunteed. Are you going to outlaw alchohol all over the world to make sure no one dies from a drunk driver again? Because that is what you are going to have to do. Same thing with hand guns. Then what you are talking about 1984.

[CalgaryFan68]

Originally Posted by arsenal

Actually I do. Shocker huh? That being said, if a woman wants to abort her child, that is up to her. That is no business of the governments. And I don't really care of gay people want to get married. Doesn't affect me. If they find someone that they want to spend the rest of their lives with, good on them. The only thing the government should have their hand in is the legalization of Marijuana.
Glad you guys are choosing the easiest argument, and ignoring the others. But hey, it's all good
And it isn't so much the handgun, as that is one less choice I have. 1 more thing the government controls. It's the principle. Not so much the actual action. And if you can't see that, then I can't help you. You are too busy looking in front of you to notice the semi comming in on your flank.

What comes after handguns? Alchohol? Possibly, more people die of alchohol related deaths than hand guns. The only way to stop anyone from getting killed by a drunk driver, outlaw alchohol. And even then it is not 100% garunteed. Are you going to outlaw alchohol all over the world to make sure no one dies from a drunk driver again? Because that is what you are going to have to do. Same thing with hand guns. Then what you are talking about 1984.

I believe the point of 2 gays living together is fine with most people, what is difficult to swallow is a government that interprets the rule of god ie. "religion" and the religious service of "marriage". Personally, I don't want to see a country with legalized prostitution, drugs, along with gun registration that doesn't work and has sapped our economy 2 Billion bucks implementing (probably has the same sort of corruption adscam was), I could go on and on. Only reason our gov't has balanced the books is due to cuts to health care and over taxation. Not something to be proud of.

[Vulcan]

If we had a so called perfect world and everyone was a responsible adult you could have all the handguns you wanted. Since this isn't the case and sometimes I get the urge to shoot someone we have to put some limitations on our society.

[CalgaryFan68]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

If we had a so called perfect world and everyone was a responsible adult you could have all the handguns you wanted. Since this isn't the case and sometimes I get the urge to shoot someone we have to put some limitations on our society.

I agree, instead of putting in ineffective registry, which criminals ignore anyway. Put in effect punishment in the way of time in prison. Kinda sucks that someone can shoot and kill someone and be out in 5 years. 2 billion bucks would pay for a lot of policemen, prisons, and judges.

[transplant99]

What comes after handguns? Alchohol? Possibly, more people die of alchohol related deaths than hand guns. The only way to stop anyone from getting killed by a drunk driver, outlaw alchohol. And even then it is not 100% garunteed. Are you going to outlaw alchohol all over the world to make sure no one dies from a drunk driver again? Because that is what you are going to have to do. Same thing with hand guns. Then what you are talking about 1984.

Actually you would have to outlaw vehicles.

Thats what those that say handguns need to have even more control would HAVE to argue.

Bad people with guns = death and mayhem.

Bad people with cars (drunk or otherwise) = death and mayhem..

So, in that sense...what is the difference between cars and guns since both can be used for bad stuff by bad people.

Guns in responsible hands will not be responsible for killing anyone, just like vehicles wont. Exception beingaccidents of course, in which i will venture about 1000 times more people die accidently at the hands of a vehicle than those of handguns.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan68

I agree, instead of putting in ineffective registry, which criminals ignore anyway. Put in effect punishment in the way of time in prison. Kinda sucks that someone can shoot and kill someone and be out in 5 years. 2 billion bucks would pay for a lot of policemen, prisons, and judges.

I agree too, Martin and the Liberals don't have a clue on this issue.

[transplant99]

I agree too, Martin and the Liberals don't have a clue on this issue.

My favorite response the "handgun ban" stuff came from some city's police commissioner or chief.

"Thats great, why doesn't he just ban crime while he is at it "?

:O

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by arsenal

1) Gun Registry
2) If Liberals are elected, ban on hand guns
3) CRTC
4) Ban on smoking in public places
5) Ban on vehicles comming into the Country
6) Liberal funded Day Care

If it keeps going like this, we will be living 1984.

Are you serious???

1. WTF is wrong with a gun registry? Controlling who may purchase weapons is a very good thing. Having laws in place that force people to be responsible for their weapons is not only smart, but the moral thing to do. The United States is a very violent country BECAUSE of the simple access to firearms. Giving law enforcement another weapon in controlling these weapons would be a great step forward for the United States.

2. Why is there a need for hand guns in Canada, or anywhere else? When was the last time you saw a hunter go after game with his Glock 9 mm? Or when was the last time you read about a Crip taking out a Blood with a hunting rifle? Certain weapons have certain uses, and hand guns are a weapon that are used against other people. The need for hand guns is non-existent for anyone but law enforcement agents. That way you know that when someone pulls one, they are either a cop or they are a criminal. No confusion. But that is a problem in the United States, confusion on gins. Canadians are damn lucky they are not subjected to the wackos that are the NRA lobby. They misquote the constitution like George Bush misquotes the bible and CIA intelligence reports to further their cause. Read the constitution and tell me exactly what it says about arms.

3. CRTC? Is that not the Canadian version of the FCC? What's the difference? Oh, let me guess? The protectionist nature of the CRTC by enforcing the Canadian content rules? Well don't worry, the FCC essentially does the same thing down here by granting licenses to only those that promote a certain level of content.

4. Those bans already exist in certain States. No difference.

5. Ban on what vehicles coming into the country? WTF you talking about Willis? I just saw many products in Canada that I did not see in the United States, primarily because they were fuel efficient and would hurt the American manufactures and the continued development of the next big ****-the-environment SUV. What vehicles does Canada ban and what vehicles do the Americans get that Canadians don't?

6. Day care is bad? Yeah, mutch better to have the "kiddies" doing their thing on their own and turnong to the only "family" they know! Yup, and Canada is now getting a taste of a gang problem that has been plaguing America for 40 years, because they didn't care about their children.

And please don't invoke 1984, like it's some sort of massive threat, because its already here. The information stores on Americans is unbelievable. I'm pretty sure it they have similar systems in Canada based on information I have seen. Reports are very similar. Communication has been monitored for years and everything you do is maintained in a series of databases that government agencies have access to. I could tell you stories that would chill your blood. George Orwell would be shocked and amazed.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan68

I believe the point of 2 gays living together is fine with most people, what is difficult to swallow is a government that interprets the rule of god ie. "religion" and the religious service of "marriage". Personally, I don't want to see a country with legalized prostitution, drugs, along with gun registration that doesn't work and has sapped our economy 2 Billion bucks implementing (probably has the same sort of corruption adscam was), I could go on and on. Only reason our gov't has balanced the books is due to cuts to health care and over taxation. Not something to be proud of.

You've got it wrong then. The point of government legalizing gay marriage is exactly so they aren't interpreting religion. It's open to gays as much as it is open to hetros. Because being gay is legal as opposed to the usual lame argument about beastiality etc.
Another analogy was if it was illegal for blacks to marry white people. The government is saying it's a right and we're stepping aside. So if you're against gay marriage you're actually for more government control of religion.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

1. WTF is wrong with a gun registry? Controlling who may purchase weapons is a very good thing. Having laws in place that force people to be responsible for their weapons is not only smart, but the moral thing to do. The United States is a very violent country BECAUSE of the simple access to firearms. Giving law enforcement another weapon in controlling these weapons would be a great step forward for the United States.

I never said controlling who recieves a weapon shouldn't be controlled. Do I think a mentally unstable person should have access to weapons? Nope. Should I have access to weapons if I am a responsable adult? Yep.

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

2. Why is there a need for hand guns in Canada, or anywhere else? When was the last time you saw a hunter go after game with his Glock 9 mm? Or when was the last time you read about a Crip taking out a Blood with a hunting rifle? Certain weapons have certain uses, and hand guns are a weapon that are used against other people. The need for hand guns is non-existent for anyone but law enforcement agents. That way you know that when someone pulls one, they are either a cop or they are a criminal. No confusion. But that is a problem in the United States, confusion on gins. Canadians are damn lucky they are not subjected to the wackos that are the NRA lobby. They misquote the constitution like George Bush misquotes the bible and CIA intelligence reports to further their cause. Read the constitution and tell me exactly what it says about arms.

Again, it is not so much the hand guns persay, it is the principle. I am sure you read over the rest of the posts here, and chose to ignore them. If you are going to ban hand guns, becuase they can be used to irresponsible people to kill other people. Then you better ban cars and alchohol as well. Becuase those are used by irresponsible people to kill other other people.

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

3. CRTC? Is that not the Canadian version of the FCC? What's the difference? Oh, let me guess? The protectionist nature of the CRTC by enforcing the Canadian content rules? Well don't worry, the FCC essentially does the same thing down here by granting licenses to only those that promote a certain level of content.

So, wouldn't you like watch and view what you choose? And not have it fed to you? You of all people would love this, since you are the biggest proponent of free speech on this board are you not?

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

4. Those bans already exist in certain States. No difference

But they don't exist in all states. The states that they do exist in are Dem states.

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

5. Ban on what vehicles coming into the country? WTF you talking about Willis? I just saw many products in Canada that I did not see in the United States, primarily because they were fuel efficient and would hurt the American manufactures and the continued development of the next big ****-the-environment SUV. What vehicles does Canada ban and what vehicles do the Americans get that Canadians don't?

Nissan Skyline, Lancer Evolution are 2 of them. While it is perfectly OK to import a vehicle that is 15 years old. What sense does that make? I figure the older cars are going to be more dangerous than the newer ones.

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

6. Day care is bad? Yeah, mutch better to have the "kiddies" doing their thing on their own and turnong to the only "family" they know! Yup, and Canada is now getting a taste of a gang problem that has been plaguing America for 40 years, because they didn't care about their children.

I never said Day Care is bad. One where the only choice is a government funded, controlled day care is bad. Again, another choice made for me, by the Government.

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

And please don't invoke 1984, like it's some sort of massive threat, because its already here. The information stores on Americans is unbelievable. I'm pretty sure it they have similar systems in Canada based on information I have seen. Reports are very similar. Communication has been monitored for years and everything you do is maintained in a series of databases that government agencies have access to. I could tell you stories that would chill your blood. George Orwell would be shocked and amazed.

What do I care if what I am doing in my life is being monitored? I still have the freedom to do what I choose. If I happen to do something illegal, the chances of me getting caught are greater. Right now, there are still alot of freedoms available to me. They are still waiting for me to commit the crime, before arresting me. The flip side is controlling and conditioning people so that they cannot commit crimes.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by arsenal

What do I care if what I am doing in my life is being monitored? I still have the freedom to do what I choose. If I happen to do something illegal, the chances of me getting caught are greater. Right now, there are still alot of freedoms available to me. They are still waiting for me to commit the crime, before arresting me. The flip side is controlling and conditioning people so that they cannot commit crimes.

YOu are making a somewhat confusing argument here. You don't like the government making decisions for us but you also don't mind that the government monitors us in case we make the wrong decision (aka commit a crime)?

Is that about it?

Also, you may not care that you are being monitored, but I do. The old " what do I care if they are watching me, I have nothing to hide" just doesn't cut it. That is not freedom.