What would rebuilding look like?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

I kind of thought they should've rebuilt when Johnny bolted and Tkachuk made his intentions clear. They used all their assets and leverage to bring in comparable players, albeit much older ones, also on expensive long-term deals.

It's worth it if you win a Stanley Cup, sure, but this squad wasn't that close last year and with almost every core player 29 and older that window is gonna close fast.

john and jonathan are the same age . weegar was basically found money as he was tacked on . the only jump in age is Tkachuk 24 to Kadri 31 which is a fair jump but Tkachuk will be useful only slightly longer than Kadri with how he will age with that foot speed

given the circumstance it was still great work and that can't be debated . I am most leary of 9 years of huberdeau at 10.5 .. but I don't think we will suffer too much at all from Kadri and weegars contracts . the cap is going up too

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

A missed opportunity not tanking this year with how great the top 4-5 look. They would all go first overall any other year. I guess anything can still happen but the current squad looks subpar

Hey Dragomir, have the Oilers announced their parade route yet?

[CroFlames]

Let me guess, we lost a game this week?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I'm way more mad about the tuesday loss than saturday . sat came down to untimely poor fortune and was hard fought .. if the team puts out many games like the Tuesday game where they squander a multi goal lead in such a way that looks almost deliberate , that is where they will lose me

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

I kind of thought they should've rebuilt when Johnny bolted and Tkachuk made his intentions clear. They used all their assets and leverage to bring in comparable players, albeit much older ones, also on expensive long-term deals.

It's worth it if you win a Stanley Cup, sure, but this squad wasn't that close last year and with almost every core player 29 and older that window is gonna close fast.

In the flat cap world it is very tough to tear down a team to the studs. You basically would have to let Sutter walk in the last year of his deal. Do you let Treliving tear it down in the last year of his deal?

I find these comments weird coming from you since you are a fan of a team in a forever rebuild. Buffalo has started strong many times in the past before the wheels fall off so while their first 10 games were good they still are over a decade since the playoffs picking high every year, making trades for win now players, but struggling to pull themselves out.

I know Oiler fans like to talk about how they destroyed the Flames but 3 of the Flames losses occurred with the game tied in the 3rd and in 2 cases they blew 2 goal leads. No denying it was a 5 game gentleman’s sweep but it was not like they got blown out of the building in every game

Does it really make sense to rebuild when you have one of the best D corps in the league? A Vezina caliber goalie? Selke runner up Center? Hall of Fame coach?

Once the Panthers deal presented itself then keeping the team competitive made sense. They lost the top free agent but were able to add the second best one on the market. Right now many call them a cup contender so it feels like this was the right move. No doubt the deal to get Kadri or extensions required to keep Huberdeau and Weegar will age poorly but in 2 years this team has the ability to turn over a good chunk of their roster and inject some youth into the lineup.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I'm happy with the make up of this team and glad we were able to salvage what happened in the off season. It's exciting to think we have a legitimate chance this season but it's pretty much boom or bust.

I did look at next year's cap situation and it made me think about what if we did decide to rebuild after losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk, what would the team look like going into the off season next year with big hitters in the draft (Bedard/Michkov)?

Possibly no Kadri so Monahan rides out his contract and we still have Floridas 1st
Not re-signing Huberdeau and flipping him before deadline for possibly a 1st and 2nd? Maybe even two 1st?
Not re-signing Weegar and flipping him before deadline for possibly a 2nd? Maybe even a 1st?
Hanifin may not want to re-sign an extension so what would trading him be worth with a pick?
Teams might be interested in Markstrom and what would he be worth?
Lindholm and Toffoli would also be one year from expiring so flipping them for a draft pick could be done.

With a crap ton of cap space after 23 we would be able to sign a good UFA as well. Also with a ton of picks for 23 draft, we could make a ton of noise if picking the right kids. Thoughts?

A bunch of extra late 1sts and 2nds, would not have put this team all that far ahead. The rebuild would have come through several years of painful absolute failure trying to outcompete Arizona for last place.

It would have been a very long rebuild. Currently betting odds have the Flames in second place behind Colorado as favorites to win the cup. The odds of a rebuild even working out that well are slim. We could just have easily ended up in a cycle of mediocrity or worse.

The rebuild was clearly the wrong choice. This team has a solid cup window.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Just watch the Flames miss the playoffs and somehow slide into the top 3 at the draft.
Best of both worlds imo.

Unless they are horrendously bad you can only jump 5 spots in the draft lottery so they need to be bottom 8 bad to get a top 3 pick by winning the lottery.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

It's worth it if you win a Stanley Cup, sure, but this squad wasn't that close last year and with almost every core player 29 and older that window is gonna close fast.

The goal is always to win a Stanley Cup, but for every team every year to actually win it is a massive long-shot. The only thing any team can do is to put themselves in a position to win, and that is what the Flames have done for the next couple seasons.


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[Teroy]

genetic_phreek

Don't you realize you need permission from the "know it all's" before you can start a thread like this. Shame on you.

[Jore]

I wanted them to rebuild the summer, but by all accounts ownership laid down the 'compete now' mandate.



BT did well to try to make moves to compete now. Since there's nothing I or any of us can do, just going to hope that the moves work out over the season and into the playoffs.

[genetic_phreek]

Opened this topic up in the beginning of November when we were 5-3. Got lots of heat for it but seems like there's been lots of discussions on it recently.

We're still in the mix to make playoffs and with Sutter at the helm, it's still not likely to happen but I've always been in the rebuild camp after what happened last playoffs.

If we're still middling in two weeks, I'd say start trading away the likes of Lindholm, Toffoli, Hanifin, Markstrom, etc. We have to make trades in the off season since Huberdeau and Weegar are getting huge raises.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Opened this topic up in the beginning of November when we were 5-3. Got lots of heat for it but seems like there's been lots of discussions on it recently.

We're still in the mix to make playoffs and with Sutter at the helm, it's still not likely to happen but I've always been in the rebuild camp after what happened last playoffs.

If we're still middling in two weeks, I'd say start trading away the likes of Lindholm, Toffoli, Hanifin, Markstrom, etc. We have to make trades in the off season since Huberdeau and Weegar are getting huge raises.

Those would likely be off-season moves anyways. I’m just hoping they stand pat at the deadline at this rate unless there is a Hamilton type trade out there

[ForeverFlameFan]

We’re going to ride it out until the offseason at minimum. With how much parity there is going on in the league (this is what they wanted), we can win 2/3 games in a row and look “comfortable”.

The playoff race will go down to the wire, and your Calgary Flames are likely picking 14th-18th, not something you want to hear.

[Manhattanboy]

Funny how you were ripped for starting this thread and three months later I think about the "what if" daily.

[blankall]

The thing with selling at the deadline is that it's mostly the contending teams that are buying. So you're ending up with late firsts, that statistically rarely amount to much. Look at the Iginla trade: Agostina, Janowski, and a 1st. The Flames ended up with Poirier and Klimchuk from those late 1sts. Shea Theodore was drafted late that first round, but the rest were not impact players.

So the "rebuild" is really about getting those 3-5 high draft picks from your own picks and making those count.

I'm not super concerned about lost opportunities to grab late 1st/2nd rounders. The team is likely not getting rebuilt with those picks.

[PuckSlap]

I'm at the point as a fan, that maybe I would rather suffer through a rebuild, rather then watch this current roster play another season.

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[Erick Estrada]

I'm not overly enjoying the games this season. I'm not sure how much worse the entertainment value would be if they were rebuilding. The way Darryl coaches, a rebuilding team wouldn't be a total tire fire.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not overly enjoying the games this season. I'm not sure how much worse the entertainment value would be if they were rebuilding. The way Darryl coaches, a rebuilding team wouldn't be a total tire fire.

Agree. Would the EV (ent. value) really change that much without Huberdeau and Kadri in the line up? It might have been better, with more kids etc.

[Vinny01]

It would have been a lot easier to stomach and want to pursue a rebuild if things didn’t go so well for the Flames last year. Career years by practically the entire roster and the love for Sutter was unconditional and endless. Elite in net, low goals against, high goals for 111pts. If the team was on the bubble and Gaudreau and Tkachuk walked it would have been much easier to go down the path of a full tear down and let Oiler fans revel in the fact they did send the Flames to a rebuild. Moving Markstrom, Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, Tkachuk, Mangiapane for pure futures and cap dumps. Not signing Zadorov or Kadri and anticipating starting it over with a new coach and chase Bedard would have been a more palatable option. Last season was just too good. Markstrom was elite, Lindholm and Mangiapane looked like budding superstars. Anderson, Hanifin, Kylington all key pieces of the blueline for years to come. Replacing the free agent loss of Gaudreau with Kadri and turning Tkachuk in Huberdeau/Weegar felt like the team was able and ready to take a step forward not back. The team was too good and the fans were drunk of member berries of having Sutter behind the bench again that the rebuild path was not the obvious first choice. Some in hindsight are feeling regret and that is understandable but at the time it didn’t make a ton of sense to many including myself

[dissentowner]

How did I know this thread would get bumped.