Islanders extend C Mathew Barzal (8 x $9.15M)

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Just because the cap is going up you still don't overpay and this is a big overpay. A 60 point guy getting 9.15 is what the league has come to. Salaries are out of control.

25 years ago, Sergei Federov got $25m/yr after a 63 point season.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by dino7c

now do the last 3 seasons

Yup, 0.83 to 1.24 but who you betting on 4-5 years from now.
All I'm saying is Barzal isn't garbage and this deal will probably look pretty good in 6 years.
You penciling Huberdeau in for 102 points this year?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

now do the last 3 seasons

And look at their ages.

Which contract will look better in 4 years?

[Enoch Root]

Barzal's contract MAY look better than Huberdeau's in 4 or 5 years, but that is hardly an endorsement. If the cap doubles over the next 5 years, Nurse's contract will only look half bad. If you can't justify it in year one, for a 25 year old in the prime of his career, it probably isn't awesome.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

Yup, 0.83 to 1.24 but who you betting on 4-5 years from now.
All I'm saying is Barzal isn't garbage and this deal will probably look pretty good in 6 years.
You penciling Huberdeau in for 102 points this year?

I never said it was garbage...not sure why with every single signing we have to say how much better it is than X Flames player to prove some kinda point.

Huberdeau scored 115, that's why he got 10.5M

Barzal's deal might be okay, he needs to be way better than last season though and the Islanders seem pretty mediocre to me despite two deep runs. I mean Montreal got further recently.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I actually think this kid is super underrated.

He needs better wingers to play with and a more offensive system.

IMO one of the more overrated players in the league. He’s a good player but he’s mistaken a lot for being elite. I agree would probably fare better with a top notch winger on his line but he’s not a complete center as his work away from the puck is below average and he’s not much of a goal scorer. Good player and I think the Islanders couldn’t afford to let him go so while slightly overpaid, I think it’s good for them to have retained him.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If the cap doubles over the next 5 years,

If the cap doubles in 5 years few on this board will be able to afford tickets.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

If the cap doubles in 5 years few on this board will be able to afford tickets.

That's not exactly how the salary cap ceiling is calculated.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's not exactly how the salary cap ceiling is calculated.

Pray tell

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

25 years ago, Sergei Federov got $25m/yr after a 63 point season.

No he didn't

It was front loaded due to signing bonus and a condition if the team (Sergei signed the offer sheet with the Canes but the Wings matched) made it to the conferance finals he'd get $12M up front instead of over 4 years). It didn't average out to $25M/year. Not even close. It was a 6 year $38M deal.

He ended up making $28M the first year but only $2M/year for the final 5 years of the contract.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's a capped league with salaries tied to revenue so why does it matter?
It's just a matter of who gets the bucks and who gets squeezed.
How can salaries be "out of control" in a capped league?

This is taking it super OT but your reply really helped me crystalize my feelings on this....

The reason it matters? Is because these leagues have created a system that requires constant significant growth in order to always be ahead of these bad deals. Because the cap is tied to revenue, we now have to maximize revenue at every single place we can. So now we have ads on helmets and jerseys. Now we have ticket prices that families can't afford. Now we have television and streaming packages that are insanely expensive.

Much like our society in general, there is this hyper inflation in sports salaries and the costs associated with sports, but regular people just have to keep on keeping on. The leagues are pricing themselves out of existence and we can't just keep relying on ever increasing revenues and salary caps.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I actually think this kid is super underrated.

He needs better wingers to play with and a more offensive system.

100% this.

In over 20 years, only four players have scored more than 80 points in a season on a Barry Trotz-coached team - Backstrom, Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, and Kariya. Backstrom had the most with 86 points. Even Ovechkin's highest point total under Trotz was only 81 points.

Put Barzal on any other team in the league and he's a PPG player

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dobbles

This is taking it super OT but your reply really helped me crystalize my feelings on this....

The reason it matters? Is because these leagues have created a system that requires constant significant growth in order to always be ahead of these bad deals. Because the cap is tied to revenue, we now have to maximize revenue at every single place we can. So now we have ads on helmets and jerseys. Now we have ticket prices that families can't afford. Now we have television and streaming packages that are insanely expensive.

Much like our society in general, there is this hyper inflation in sports salaries and the costs associated with sports, but regular people just have to keep on keeping on. The leagues are pricing themselves out of existence and we can't just keep relying on ever increasing revenues and salary caps.

Keeping ahead of bad deals is a tiny tiny tiny driver of the push for increased revenues.

Partnership with the players is certainly a factor, as the PA pushes for more revenue in a way they certainly wouldn't without linkage

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by boogerz

100% this.

In over 20 years, only four players have scored more than 80 points in a season on a Barry Trotz-coached team - Backstrom, Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, and Kariya. Backstrom had the most with 86 points. Even Ovechkin's highest point total under Trotz was only 81 points.

Put Barzal on any other team in the league and he's a PPG player

Well they have a new coach so we will see

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by boogerz

100% this.

In over 20 years, only four players have scored more than 80 points in a season on a Barry Trotz-coached team - Backstrom, Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, and Kariya. Backstrom had the most with 86 points. Even Ovechkin's highest point total under Trotz was only 81 points.

Put Barzal on any other team in the league and he's a PPG player

Somewhat interesting factoid, but he simply never really had a real PPG player in his 15 years in NAS, aside from Kariya:


F Forsberg played his first 82 gp after Trotz left

JP Dumont had his 3 highest scoring seasons under Trotz (66 72 65)..next highest was 53 pts or a 60pt pace over 54gp

Arnott had one year of 76 elsewhere; 2nd best season was 72 in NAS

Steve Sullivan has 68 pts in 69 gp and 60 in 57gp under Trotz.

Scott Walker had 67 pts in the super low scoring 03-04 year. Like Legwand and Erat, there isn't much data from playing with other teams to compare.


Are there any examples of guys scoring huge elsewhere, but not under Trotz? Barzal is basically the only example at this point.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Somewhat interesting factoid, but he simply never really had a real PPG player in his 15 years in NAS, aside from Kariya:


F Forsberg played his first 82 gp after Trotz left

JP Dumont had his 3 highest scoring seasons under Trotz (66 72 65)..next highest was 53 pts or a 60pt pace over 54gp

Arnott had one year of 76 elsewhere; 2nd best season was 72 in NAS

Steve Sullivan has 68 pts in 69 gp and 60 in 57gp under Trotz.

Scott Walker had 67 pts in the super low scoring 03-04 year. Like Legwand and Erat, there isn't much data from playing with other teams to compare.


Are there any examples of guys scoring huge elsewhere, but not under Trotz? Barzal is basically the only example at this point.

Yeah, that stat had me going until you made me think on it some. It's not like Trotz was ever gifted big time players that he shut down.

Did any of the three big scoring Caps have down years under Trotz compared to other years? I don't think so.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

No he didn't

It was front loaded due to signing bonus and a condition if the team (Sergei signed the offer sheet with the Canes but the Wings matched) made it to the conferance finals he'd get $12M up front instead of over 4 years). It didn't average out to $25M/year. Not even close. It was a 6 year $38M deal.

He ended up making $28M the first year but only $2M/year for the final 5 years of the contract.

So I said 25 yrs ago, he made $25m/yr. I said nothing about term. You just showed he did, for that single year. Thanks for coming out tho.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

So I said 25 yrs ago, he made $25m/yr. I said nothing about term. You just showed he did, for that single year. Thanks for coming out tho.

He did not sign a contract for $25 million per year. He signed a contract for a much lower annual salary over a longer term, but received a big advance on the money. He still had to play all the years of the deal to earn the cash.

Thanks for showing your complete financial illiteracy, tho.

[cam_wmh]

Holy pedantic. Haha. Financial illiteracy, right. Gonna add you as the second to my ignore list. I imagine I’ll see pages with half the posts missing, on most threads.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Holy pedantic. Haha. Financial illiteracy, right. Gonna add you as the second to my ignore list. I imagine I’ll see pages with half the posts missing, on most threads.

There's nothing pedantic about being right.

You can go ahead, stick your fingers in your ears and shout, ‘La, la, la, I'm not listening!’ Which is effectively what anyone does when they announce that they are putting someone on ignore. It's no skin off my nose.

All you are really doing is doubling down on ignorance by adding childishness.