[Rumour] Weegar doesn’t want to negotiate during season: Friedman

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The fact the Flame recouped such high end assets out of this mess is something that cannot be allowed to slide (which was fantastic work). Signing Weegar gives the Flames another tremendous asset that they simply cannot afford to lose if they plan to capitalize on this window this season and beyond.

I am already on record with how stupidly myopic I believe this approach to be, but I am really interested to know from those who are already writing obituaries about Treliving's inability to re-sign his pending UFAs...

Specifically, what does this look like, in your estimation? Say Weegar is unsigned and the team does decide to move him before the TD. What is a realistic return? How does it make the team better sans Weegar? How does it affect their performance and on-ice results this season?


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[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Colorado just let Kadri and Burakovsky walk, I am sure Sakic is feeling the heat by not trading them at the start of last season to maximize their chances of winning for several years. Those 1st round picks and prospects would have been huge for them this year.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Treliving has been facked over by geography so many times and still has a 100 point team...boggles the mind some still doubt him

If Weegar will take a fair deal it will get done, if 6.5+x8 isn't good enough for him its pretty hard to blame the GM. You cant just give a guy everything he wants.

You have to pay to get talent. Plain and simple. If you aren't paying a guy like Weegar who is capable of seriously moving the needle for this franchise, who are you paying instead, and why? It's also not at all like $6.5-$7M AAV is that ridiculous - the Flames can make it work and the cap will be going up. Now is the time to spend on an asset that completely fits and has the potential to provide excellent value.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

This is a pretty standard negotiating tactic.

Exactly. Something that an inexperienced agent/lawyer/uncle with one client would do including whispering this intent into Elliott's ear.

Maybe Tre is trying to strongarm a newb agent or maybe he knows the comparables best and is holding to that and not overpaying. Likely both.

But one thing we know about Treliving is that he isn't afraid to loosen purse strings if he has to. I have a hard time believing Treliving is being cheap.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Whether Calgary signs Weegar to an extension is going to be a good measure of Treliving again, and whether he learns from situations. He nearly burned the team to the ground by misplaying the Gaudreau contract, which he would have been happy to sign before last season started for a reasonable value (less than what was on the table after the season). After Gaudreau bounced he had Tkachuk then decide he wanted out as well. What worked for the Flames advantage there was he had a Tkachuk to trade, and another dopey GM who believed he was getting a generational talent in return and gave up more than anyone else would have. The Flames got exceptionally lucky as they recouped some really good assets because they had something tangible to trade. They then got as lucky in being able to sign Kadri, but having to pay to move Monahan to do so. That was then, this is now.

Treliving is staring down the barrel of the exact same gun. Only this time the outcomes look different. He can sign Weegar to what will likely be a very reasonable long-term extension if rumors are accurate. Or he can somehow let this slide this slide int the season and watch the number grow if the Flames achieve the levels expected. If the contract slides and the Flames have another successful season with Weegar as a main part of that equation the potential to lose him increases. At best the contract numbers increase, likely making him too rich for the Flames' blood. Weegar would position himself to walk, which the Flames don't want and can't afford to have happen. Why would that be? Look at the blueline and the contract situations to figure it out.

The Flames don't have much on the blueline in the development pipeline. It is not like they have multiple players knocking at the door to backfill players as they leave. They also don't have many more trade chips left to play with, so a replay of this past summer is highly unlikely. The best play here is to get the contract done now and keep the team focused on winning rather than the concerns about a repeat of this summer. If Weegar is that Giordano level defenseman, then get him under contract and make the Tkachuk trade a landslide victory once and for all.

Are you okay?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am already on record with how stupidly myopic I believe this approach to be, but I am really interested to know from those who are already writing obituaries about Treliving's inability to re-sign his pending UFAs...

Specifically, what does this look like, in your estimation? Say Weegar is unsigned and the team does decide to move him before the TD. What is a realistic return? How does it make the team better sans Weegar? How does it affect their performance and on-ice results this season?


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I'm not really sure what you're asking as I'm not advocating Weegar is traded now or at any point. You have to sign him in the next 2 weeks. Full stop. If you don't, he's gone after the season because you're not moving him as a key piece of a team that will be at worst fighting for a playoff spot and at best, locking down the division again.

Things are only going to get worse contractually in the instance where he's not signed before the season. I would even argue that paying him $7.5M/8years isn't even a loss for the Flames with where the league economics are more than likely headed. I don't imagine Treliving is going down that road again and will likely save his best offer for closer to the end of camp, but whatever that is, it needs to be good enough to get pen to paper.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Pushing for a deep playoff run >>>> asset management.

I am going to keep poking at this false dichotomy dvery time I see it. "Assettl management" has become shorthand for turning players on expiring contracts into draft/prospect capital, but it is really silly to promote the idea that this us the only way to effectively manage assets. In short, NacKenzie Weegar's 2022-23 season at a cap hit of $3.25 m is a tremendously valuable asset all on it's own, and the decision to maximize that value by keeping him on the roster for a strong season is a very good one.

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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You have to pay to get talent. Plain and simple. If you aren't paying a guy like Weegar who is capable of seriously moving the needle for this franchise, who are you paying instead, and why? It's also not at all like $6.5-$7M AAV is that ridiculous - the Flames can make it work and the cap will be going up. Now is the time to spend on an asset that completely fits and has the potential to provide excellent value.

This is what I am saying though, I think the Flames ARE offering 6.5-7Mx8 right now and I'm totally fine with it. If he doesn't sign that though how do you blame the GM exactly?

Like the Gaudreau situation the Flames are offering the most total dollars by a longshot...if the player won't sign it how on earth do you blame the GM/Organization

[SebC]

You play with the best team you can. If Weegar isn't signed and doesn't want the Flames' 6-7 mill after the season, someone else will.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This is what I am saying though, I think the Flames ARE offering 6.5-7Mx8 right now and I'm totally fine with it. If he doesn't sign that though how do you blame the GM exactly?

Like the Gaudreau situation the Flames are offering the most total dollars by a longshot...if the player won't sign it how on earth do you blame the GM/Organization

You go higher? We just don't know where either camp is at right now (aside from the fact that both want a long term commitment), but not spending an extra $1M/year (or whatever it is, but it can't be significantly higher) on him is going to get you what in the long run?

A Flames team possibly without Weegar next year is not nearly as formidable as it would be with him. Maybe some sort of miracle plays out after the season and he's re-signed, but I don't think anyone wants to bank on it and it will likely cost you more at that point than it will now anyway.

[Roof-Daddy]

Well, then let's get him signed already lol

Seems like the two parties have been "close" for weeks and weeks now.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Like the Gaudreau situation the Flames are offering the most total dollars by a longshot...

True, but no other team is able to offer him anything right now.

But if he was a UFA, hard to know how much he'd be offered right now.

[Bonded]

Playing the game to get closer to his demands

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You go higher? We just don't know where either camp is at right now (aside from the fact that both want a long term commitment), but not spending an extra $1M/year (or whatever it is, but it can't be significantly higher) on him is going to get you what in the long run?

A Flames team possibly without Weegar next year is not nearly as formidable as it would be with him. Maybe some sort of miracle plays out after the season and he's re-signed, but I don't think anyone wants to bank on it and it will likely cost you more at that point than it will now anyway.

I think you should follow what it says in your avatar and keep calm. If it's going to get done it will, if its not its not. We don't know if its 1 million or 3 million its just making up scenarios to get upset about something that hasn't happened yet.

I do believe they will get a deal done.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I hope we sign him, but I won’t be shocked if he doesn’t sign right away. Weegar subtracted from the original deal is still a fleece by Tre.

If all we get, worst case scenario, is one year of Weegar we are going to make sure we add additional top end player(s) on top of him for a great push. Then again, we’ll do that signed or not signed. I don’t fault him if he does want to wait. We would potentially be offering around double his salary, some dumb team out there probably will offer 2.5-3x the money if they’re desperate.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This is what I am saying though, I think the Flames ARE offering 6.5-7Mx8 right now and I'm totally fine with it. If he doesn't sign that though how do you blame the GM exactly?

You don't blame the GM for the player not signing. You blame the GM for not turning an asset that has indicated he's not willing to negotiate any further into something that addresses the long-term needs of the team. If a player doesn't want to sign with you for the best offer you have on the table the only control mechanism you have left is to trade the player for assets you continue to have control over.

Like the Gaudreau situation the Flames are offering the most total dollars by a longshot...if the player won't sign it how on earth do you blame the GM/Organization

If you know he isn't going to sign, trade him while you can and get good value for him. That is the control the GM has over this situation, so use it. There are teams that would give a good return for Weegar so make that happen if Weegar has indicated he will not accept your best offer. Personally I would prefer he is signed before the season starts, but if he pulls the same Gaudreau ####, send him packing as soon as possible. DON'T build up a case where the team is too reliant on the player to make a deal. Move him if yu are pushed into the corner.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Absolutely not. Ridiculous take.

Unless the Flames aren't looking competitive. And then it's an entirely different situation, and trade away.

Exactly. Competitive playoff teams trade futures away at the deadline to add. They don't trade core pieces of their team away during a playoff push. That's just counter intuitive to your current season. If they were bubble team, or were out of the playoffs, then absolutely, trade away.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Some people don't venture into mega threads like that because it's mostly arguing. I like something like this getting it's own thread, not like there's a limit to them

And when the new thread is created, we'll argue about whether it should have been created!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by SebC

You play with the best team you can. If Weegar isn't signed and doesn't want the Flames' 6-7 mill after the season, someone else will.

Makar, right?

[Mindtravellee]

Is there any worry that he's only played 1 full season (not including the covid season). Is it only the last 2 years that he's made it? Is it worth rushing a $7 over 7?

I feel the Gudbranson contract has thrown everything out of whack