Illegal immigration because of climate issues

[pylon]

I've always believed the best and worst thing about Canada is our access to Natural resources.... namely water.

I do believe in the not so distant future, Canada will be threatened by the US to either give it up by threat or force. And there isn't a thing we could do about it.

I always hear the argument "We are Americas best friend, they'd never do that." And I don't buy that for a second. If you get Trump, or another psychopath like him in power again, and you have famine level drought affecting 100+ million of your citizens... all of a sudden Canada will have a problem with "Nazi's" that we will need to be liberated from. And Americans will guzzle the Kool-Aid by the gallon and look the other way if it means being able to water their lawn in Tucson Arizona.

I believe this scenario plays out within a decade too. This drought isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by pylon

I've always believed the best and worst thing about Canada is our access to Natural resources.... namely water.

I do believe in the not so distant future, Canada will be threatened by the US to either give it up by threat or force. And there isn't a thing we could do about it.

I always hear the argument "We are Americas best friend, they'd never do that." And I don't buy that for a second. If you get Trump, or another psychopath like him in power again, and you have famine level drought affecting 100+ million of your citizens... all of a sudden Canada will have a problem with "Nazi's" that we will need to be liberated from. And Americans will guzzle the Kool-Aid by the gallon and look the other way if it means being able to water their lawn in Tucson Arizona.

I believe this scenario plays out within a decade too. This drought isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Is it that much of a threat? There aren't that many rivers in Canada that flow into water-poor areas of the US. What are they going to do, build a pipeline from Great Bear Lake to Arizona? Yes, there are a few rivers, but I just can't see it being major enough to be that big of a deal.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by pylon

I've always believed the best and worst thing about Canada is our access to Natural resources.... namely water.

I do believe in the not so distant future, Canada will be threatened by the US to either give it up by threat or force. And there isn't a thing we could do about it.

I always hear the argument "We are Americas best friend, they'd never do that." And I don't buy that for a second. If you get Trump, or another psychopath like him in power again, and you have famine level drought affecting 100+ million of your citizens... all of a sudden Canada will have a problem with "Nazi's" that we will need to be liberated from. And Americans will guzzle the Kool-Aid by the gallon and look the other way if it means being able to water their lawn in Tucson Arizona.

I believe this scenario plays out within a decade too. This drought isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Well said.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Is it that much of a threat? There aren't that many rivers in Canada that flow into water-poor areas of the US. What are they going to do, build a pipeline from Great Bear Lake to Arizona? Yes, there are a few rivers, but I just can't see it being major enough to be that big of a deal.

Yeah, the engineering challenges of moving really large amounts of water is significant. The one really big project is the South-North Water Diversion project (of course) in China and that is a 50-year project and hundreds of billions of dollars.

Even if the US had the will and the state unity to work on such a massive project, I'd think the shortest and easiest option would be transporting water from the Columbia River to southern California and the SW.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Yeah, the engineering challenges of moving really large amounts of water is significant. The one really big project is the South-North Water Diversion project (of course) in China and that is a 50-year project and hundreds of billions of dollars.

Even if the US had the will and the state unity to work on such a massive project, I'd think the shortest and easiest option would be transporting water from the Columbia River to southern California and the SW.

One concern might be the USA further tapping into our irrigation districts.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Is it that much of a threat? There aren't that many rivers in Canada that flow into water-poor areas of the US. What are they going to do, build a pipeline from Great Bear Lake to Arizona? Yes, there are a few rivers, but I just can't see it being major enough to be that big of a deal.

I think the idea would be to have several diversion projects over relatively short distances to replenish sources as they are depleted, not move water from one remote location to another. For example, deplete one lake or river, then divert another relatively close lake or river to that one, and so on. Then have pipelines that connect adjacent water sheds in some cases.

One project that was debated for year was the Great Recycling and Northern Development Canal. The idea would be to dam off James Bay, then channel the water to the Great Lakes. The Great Lakes could then be replenished at a greater rate as consumption requirements increased.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_...elopment_Canal

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Is it that much of a threat? There aren't that many rivers in Canada that flow into water-poor areas of the US. What are they going to do, build a pipeline from Great Bear Lake to Arizona? Yes, there are a few rivers, but I just can't see it being major enough to be that big of a deal.

We build pipeline systems that ship oil and gas all over the continent.... why do you think it would be unreasonable to pipe the single most important life sustaining resource in existence with a similar system? The amount of geoengineering that has gone into canal and reservoir systems in the US over the last century is astounding.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by pylon

We build pipeline systems that ship oil and gas all over the continent.... why do you think it would be unreasonable to pipe the single most important life sustaining resource in existence with a similar system? The amount of geoengineering that has gone into canal and reservoir systems in the US over the last century is astounding.

I am an Engineer, all true. In fact, canals work just fine. Water will always follow the path of least resistance, you just have to create it.

[GGG]

Desalination is .50-$1 per meter cubed. Pipelines are like $60 a m^3 for oil. Not sure what canals and pumping cost over great divides but it sure seems like for non agricultural use Desalination is a much better option. At Ag scale everything is expensive if isn’t for wine.

[Yikes]

How far south do our current districts flow?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by pylon

I've always believed the best and worst thing about Canada is our access to Natural resources.... namely water.

I do believe in the not so distant future, Canada will be threatened by the US to either give it up by threat or force. And there isn't a thing we could do about it.

I always hear the argument "We are Americas best friend, they'd never do that." And I don't buy that for a second. If you get Trump, or another psychopath like him in power again, and you have famine level drought affecting 100+ million of your citizens... all of a sudden Canada will have a problem with "Nazi's" that we will need to be liberated from. And Americans will guzzle the Kool-Aid by the gallon and look the other way if it means being able to water their lawn in Tucson Arizona.

I believe this scenario plays out within a decade too. This drought isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

But I still don't get the point. Isn't it cheaper just to build major canal systems that attach to the great lakes on their side of the border and drain it dry? Water from our side of the border would trickle towards their end naturally anyways if they did that. What would marching into Canada do? Give them an opportunity to pay Canadians wages to build an even longer canal from our side of the border to the same locations they are aim to go to?

From the Western side, I can't imagine it making more sense to deal with the international fall out by invading and building from Lake Athabasca (2,152 miles) to LA vs Chicago (Lake Michigan) to LA (2,015 miles). The Chinese built the grand canal hundreds of years ago (1,104 miles) without modern machinery.

But this doesn't fully go into OP's confusing thought process. What illegal immigration from climate issues? What opportunity is being offered here that is a drastic improvement to what the USA would be going through to cause illegal immigration to Canada to be worth it?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

But this doesn't fully go into OP's confusing thought process. What illegal immigration from climate issues? What opportunity is being offered here that is a drastic improvement to what the USA would be going through to cause illegal immigration to Canada to be worth it?

I believe he's getting at the fact that some parts of the world will simply become unlivable due to heat and drought. I once saw a map that showed what would happen if the global temperatures went up X degrees. (I cannot remember the value of X, but it wasn't outside of plausibility within 100 years).

It basically laid the SW US to waste making it basically the Sahara Desert. It also showed how much farther North you have to go to make agriculture actually viable. Canada and Russia would be sitting on some of the only viable land to produce food and crops in the Northern Hemisphere.

If 30% of the US became an arid wasteland, and the rest of it erodes to what is the current climate in Texas, the prospect of living in what would be a much more temperate Canada looks very appealing.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by pylon

We build pipeline systems that ship oil and gas all over the continent.... why do you think it would be unreasonable to pipe the single most important life sustaining resource in existence with a similar system? The amount of geoengineering that has gone into canal and reservoir systems in the US over the last century is astounding.

You would need vastly greater capacity than an oil pipeline to make a dent, particularly if it is for agriculture. And you said you see this happening in 10 years? I think technical solutions will be derived long before the US has such a water shortage they need to invade another country and construct pipelines to steal water. It would also set a pretty massive global precedent for other countries to follow. I just don't see it happening.