[Game Takes] Game 4: Oilers 5 Flames 3 (Oilers up 3-1 in series)

[kermitology]

This season seemed like it was almost like destiny.. instead it's fading into obscurity.

Johnny likely leaves in the offseason.
Monahan is a broken shell.
Tkachuk is likely gone next year.
Sutter has struggled motivating the team in the playoffs, and I'd be shocked if he got a Gaudreau-less team into the playoffs next year.
Markstrom gets a year older and can't beat the Oilers to save his life.

It was like this year was the year that it all had to happen, and poof.. This franchise has never won a series down 3-1 or 3-2, and boy do they love their streaks. Yadda yadda not the same team.. it's voodoo and bad voodoo that plagues this franchise. I'm utterly broken after the poor efforts in this series.

[Harry Lime]

It was also discussed on Serivelli's site that the Devils were willing to entertain a trade of #2 if they got back a player that would accelerate their rebuild. They don't want to lose Hirshier and Hughes's best years. The first name that came up was Tkachuk, but that was considered a long shot (by NJ). They thought that it would have to be #2 + decent but not great add by Jersey.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the top line could player better for sure, but Tkachuk has 10 points in 11 games which puts him 12th in the league in playoff scoring.



This isn't exactly a no show.

This series. Tkachuk has 3 goals in game 1 (one empty net). 1 assist since. Johnny 5 assists, zero goals. 2 points in last 3 games.

I guess not a no-show but not what's expected or needed from two 100 point players. If they don't score we don't win.

[BlindMilwaukee]

This is a lot less dark that the Johnny Chucky signing thread lol.

If I'm Treliving I extend Johnny and look to move Tkachuk and see what the market is for Bread.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by kermitology

This season seemed like it was almost like destiny.. instead it's fading into obscurity.

Johnny likely leaves in the offseason.
Monahan is a broken shell.
Tkachuk is likely gone next year.
Sutter has struggled motivating the team in the playoffs, and I'd be shocked if he got a Gaudreau-less team into the playoffs next year.
Markstrom gets a year older and can't beat the Oilers to save his life.

It was like this year was the year that it all had to happen, and poof.. This franchise has never won a series down 3-1 or 3-2, and boy do they love their streaks. Yadda yadda not the same team.. it's voodoo and bad voodoo that plagues this franchise. I'm utterly broken after the poor efforts in this series.

Not sure we would have beaten COL but yeah that's been my worry all along.

The roster could look a whole lot different next year, both forwards and defence.

Will be interesting to see how the JG thing plays out. Who really knows where his head will be at 2 weeks after the season ends.

Maybe some of the prospects can make the leap, but you have to think just making the playoffs again will be a struggle.

[keeper34]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

Most of agree that Kane, is an absolute piece of trash. But the fact that he’s doing his job and scoring goals, and our guys aren’t…. I don’t care about his past, I want to win. Flames signed a bunch guys that just aren’t doing what he’s doing. Not enough desperation

Kane that POT alone should be enough of a motivation to get the flames team going. The entire team needs to wake up.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I think there's some value in that. A sign and trade could also work. But Calgary will need to take on some dead weight.

The value you get for trading a UFA's rights are pretty non-existent. Especially now when there is a window in talking to the player in advance anyway before the UFA period opens.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by chedder

This series. Tkachuk has 3 goals in game 1 (one empty net). 1 assist since. Johnny 5 assists, zero goals. 2 points in last 3 games.

I guess not a no-show but not what's expected or needed from two 100 point players. If they don't score we don't win.

so they both have 5 points in 4 games...not really a "no show" in fact that is over a 100 point pace lol.

some other guys are higher on that list IMO

[ricardodw]

Sutter coached the team to successfully punch down They pretty much dominated the 16 teams that did not make the playoffs.

W-L-OT

Markstrom 37-15-9
Markstrom against the 15 teams that made the playoffs 15-7-6
Markstrom against the also rans 22-8-3
Markstom against playoff teams using OT as a loss 15-13

Vladar 13-6-2
Vladar against the 15 teams that made the playoffs 4-4-2
Vladar against the also rans 9-2-0
Vladar against playoff teams using OT as a loss 4-6


Flames 50-21-11
against playoff teams 19-11-8 or 19-19
against also rans 31-10-3 or 31-13

Schedule: 38 games against 15 playoff teams 44 against the 16 also rans


That definitely made for a fun successful regular season but did not prepare the Flames to defend against the better scoring more talented teams with deeper lineups.

The regular season Flames were not able to switch over to playoff hockey after having such a dominate regular season.

The team was made to have a great regular season and they did. There was no plan to match up to the Mackinnon and McDavid teams.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There was an interesting fan question on the Athletic podcast the other day.
Tkachuk for #2 overall. Which team does it?

I think the contract considerations probably means NJ doesn't. But it still is an interesting thought exercise.

I'm still of the mind to re-sign Johnny if he'll sign here, and then trade out Tkachuk and possibly Eat Bread.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's my mindset. I think Gaudreau is more of an offensive driver for this team and Tkachuk is a really good complementary player and not worth what he's ultimately going to want in a contract. The moment he loses even half a step I feel his career will be compromised. As for Mangiapane, he's found money so if the opportunity presents itself to sell high I think you do it. I like the player but he's a hot/cold goal scorer that doesn't accomplish much when he's not scoring and I think he's not going to be nearly as attractive a player once he gets paid and he's going to get paid because of his 30 goal season.

I really have no clue on player values here. I'm sure someone is likely going to tell me I'm dumb.

Anyway...


It is said that Montreal is high on Slafkovsky but doesn't want to pass up on Wright. It was even suggested they'd like to get both picks but don't know how to make it happen.

Let's pretend your proposed Tkachuk to NJ for #2 is something both teams go for... what if Treliving flips #2 to Montreal? Is Caufield or Suzuki even in consideration? Most likely not, but what could the Flames add to get one of them? Is there anyone else the Flames could get out of Montreal that makes it worth while swapping that pick?

Dream world and not likely to happen but it made me start to wonder what could be done.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Sutter coached the team to successfully punch down They pretty much dominated the 16 teams that did not make the playoffs.

W-L-OT

Markstrom 37-15-9
Markstrom against the 15 teams that made the playoffs 15-7-6
Markstrom against the also rans 22-8-3
Markstom against playoff teams using OT as a loss 15-13

Vladar 13-6-2
Vladar against the 15 teams that made the playoffs 4-4-2
Vladar against the also rans 9-2-0
Vladar against playoff teams using OT as a loss 4-6


Flames 50-21-11
against playoff teams 19-11-8 or 19-19
against also rans 31-10-3 or 31-13

Schedule: 38 games against 15 playoff teams 44 against the 16 also rans


That definitely made for a fun successful regular season but did not prepare the Flames to defend against the better scoring more talented teams with deeper lineups.

The regular season Flames were not able to switch over to playoff hockey after having such a dominate regular season.

The team was made to have a great regular season and they did. There was no plan to match up to the Mackinnon and McDavid teams.

Ok now do the other top ten teams!

Guessing they probably won more of their games against crap teams than good teams as well.

Without that information it's irrelevant.

The Flames issue ... one that they overcame most of the season ... has always been a reliance on shot volume to a) find enough chances to make up for their lack of offensive depth and b) keep the puck out of their own zone through pressure.

That worked against Dallas though it wasn't easy.

Against Edmonton they can't forecheck as strongly because they fear the counter attack.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by dino7c

so they both have 5 points in 4 games...not really a "no show" in fact that is over a 100 point pace lol.

some other guys are higher on that list IMO

So combined three total assists in 3 losses, in the most important games of their careers, is pretty good from your two best players?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Lol,

Its playoffs, anything can happen.

To pretend that one of the best teams in the entire NHL is now crap, it hilariously short sighted.

Toronto out, Florida swept. Good teams have bad playoffs.

The Flames made the second round, its about building year over year not putting your entire plan on one season.

It was a great year, maybe it will go another game or two, but if it doesn't im not going to be upset.

Those of you lamenting the last year and these playoffs need to chill the F out.

Its the competition. If this was the Avs or TB this would not be happening. Its that Flames fans see themselves losing to a lesser opponent. That expectation isn’t unreasonable given the regular season performances of both clubs. Also given decades of losing to inferior opponents has jarred this fan base. I mean the Flames lost to Oilers in 1991 after going up 3-1 in games.

Now pepper in the fact its the Oilers, who basically did everything wrong for 15! Years and are easily beating a team that seemingly did everything right. Its hitting a nerve. Far beyond “thats how the cookie crumbles”

Its maddening.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Sutter coached the team to successfully punch down They pretty much dominated the 16 teams that did not make the playoffs.

W-L-OT

Markstrom 37-15-9
Markstrom against the 15 teams that made the playoffs 15-7-6
Markstrom against the also rans 22-8-3
Markstom against playoff teams using OT as a loss 15-13

Vladar 13-6-2
Vladar against the 15 teams that made the playoffs 4-4-2
Vladar against the also rans 9-2-0
Vladar against playoff teams using OT as a loss 4-6


Flames 50-21-11
against playoff teams 19-11-8 or 19-19
against also rans 31-10-3 or 31-13

Schedule: 38 games against 15 playoff teams 44 against the 16 also rans


That definitely made for a fun successful regular season but did not prepare the Flames to defend against the better scoring more talented teams with deeper lineups.

The regular season Flames were not able to switch over to playoff hockey after having such a dominate regular season.

The team was made to have a great regular season and they did. There was no plan to match up to the Mackinnon and McDavid teams.

And my hunch confirmed.

Looking at Calgary, the Rangers and the Wild ... teams 5-6-7 in the overall standings.

Vs the top ten teams

Minnesota 11-11
Calgary 10-11
Rangers 10-13

Vs the bottom ten teams

Minnesota 20-5
Calgary 20-6
Rangers 24-4

Very very similar (called all losses losses for simplicity).

Why do you rush to post this half baked crap after every Calgary loss? You think you would have had enough by now.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by chedder

So combined three total assists in 3 losses, in the most important games of their careers, is pretty good from your two best players?

They could be better for sure, and that can certainly be the focus.

At some point though you just have to tip your hat to the best players on the other side. They're getting it done.

McDavid has been on a complete ripper for the last 6 games. He's pretty tough to neutralize.

More production from the top line and some more saves from Markstrom and it could have been a different outcome, but I think the skill in Edmonton's top two has a huge impact on both.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They could be better for sure, and that can certainly be the focus.



At some point though you just have to tip your hat to the best players on the other side. They're getting it done.



McDavid has been on a complete ripper for the last 6 games. He's pretty tough to neutralize.



More production from the top line and some more saves from Markstrom and it could have been a different outcome, but I think the skill in Edmonton's top two has a huge impact on both.

Totally agree but MacDavid being awesome doesn't excuse our top players from being average at best. I don't think he's defending against Johnny and Matthew too much.

Its a bit of both. We were given every opportunity last night by keeping McDavid to 2 assists and got nothing from our guys coupled with Markstrom spotting them 2.

[neo45]

It’s tough to neutralize McDavid when you let three games pass before deciding that should be a priority. His confidence is through the roof because there wasn’t a single strategic thought to contain him coming into this series and we were painfully slow to adapt to what was happening.

You can start blaming individual performances but on the list of blame to be assigned Darryl’s name is number one in bold for constantly rolling four lines, refusing to shorten the bench, and not line matching against McDavid.

Out of all the infuriating moments as a Flames fan it’s tough to think of a worse one than seeing line juggling in the last three minutes of a tied crucial game between the 7th D man and your 4th line.

What the hell was the upside of that decision? You get Stone up to 6 minutes of ice time?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by chedder

Totally agree but MacDavid being awesome doesn't excuse our top players from being average at best. I don't think he's defending against Johnny and Matthew too much.

Its a bit of both. We were given every opportunity last night by keeping McDavid to 2 assists and got nothing from our guys coupled with Markstrom spotting them 2.

I think the issues with McDavid run deeper than that.

He plays about 40% of the five on five play, and the Flames like to roll four lines ... they've had to play Lindholm etc against McDavid a lot.

While doing so the forecheck gets hampered because they can't get caught with two guys deep which is essentially the pulse of the top line.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And my hunch confirmed.

Looking at Calgary, the Rangers and the Wild ... teams 5-6-7 in the overall standings.

Vs the top ten teams

Minnesota 11-11
Calgary 10-11
Rangers 10-13

Vs the bottom ten teams

Minnesota 20-5
Calgary 20-6
Rangers 24-4

Very very similar (called all losses losses for simplicity).

Why do you rush to post this half baked crap after every Calgary loss? You think you would have had enough by now.

Vs the top ten teams

St. Louis 11-10
Tampa 9-17 !!!!!
Leafs 13-11

Vs the bottom ten teams

St. Louis 16-10
Tampa 22-6
Leafs 22-8

Maybe Tampa is the team punching down! Cheaters!

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Vs the top ten teams

St. Louis 11-10
Tampa 9-17 !!!!!
Leafs 13-11

Vs the bottom ten teams

St. Louis 16-10
Tampa 22-6
Leafs 22-8

Maybe Tampa is the team punching down! Cheaters!

Hahaha I love how Ricardo was a ghost during a great season only to return and get completely obliterated by Bingo again. Good job sir.