Flames Defensive Core: Best since '04? Better?

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Regehr
Phaneuf
Bouwmeester
Giordano
Sarich
Pardy

That’s an Olympic-calibre top 4, plus Cory Sarich who was no slouch himself.

And arguably the best defenceman to ever come out of Bonavista, Newfoundland.

That team utterly collapsed due to “issues”, but on paper was one of the best defence rosters I’ve ever seen.

I actually like that defensive corps minus J-Bo. I think he's like butter soft compared to any of those listed.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Regehr
Phaneuf
Bouwmeester
Giordano
Sarich
Pardy

That’s an Olympic-calibre top 4, plus Cory Sarich who was no slouch himself.

And arguably the best defenceman to ever come out of Bonavista, Newfoundland.

That team utterly collapsed due to “issues”, but on paper was one of the best defence rosters I’ve ever seen.

That is probably the best one on paper.

This year's doesn't make any lists on paper, but they are playing fantastically.

Defensively, I think they are getting a lot of help from the forwards and the structure. But offensively, they are a huge surprise - on pace for 199 pts and no one - not even their moms - would have predicted that.

[Strange Brew]

It's ironic that the only two competent GM's Flames have had since Fletcher (speaking of Darryl and BT) had a real challenge with hiring good coaches.

Each of them had exactly one good coach. And it's the same guy.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

That team utterly collapsed due to “issues”, but on paper was one of the best defence rosters I’ve ever seen.

I'll always be partial to
MacInnis
McCrimmon
Suter
Ramage
Macoun
Murzyn
Nattress

the first 4 guys all had serious all star or norris votes in either 88 or 89 or in the case of Ramage played in the 88 all star game (as did the first 3). Macoun I prefered over Ramage but Ramage was more famous I suppose (or had more AS recognition). Even Murzyn the 6 was all rookie team in 86 and received all star votes as a 20 year old

the 87-88 team had Reinhart too- but he was breaking down..for a couple years then when they were healthy the top 3 offensive D of MacInnis/Suter/Reinhart were quite something


of course then you had the 70s habs- wasn't even fair with the big 3 and then while they might carry a goon or heavyweight on the bottom pair otherwise had guys like Langway, van Boxmeer, Nyrop, Engblom that they didn't even know what to do with, or a guy like Awrey would be on their bottom pair just a few years after playing on the Summit team etc. sigh

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The rumors were always that Darryl wanted to fire Brent but ownership wouldn't let him fire his brother 6 months into a 3 year contract.

So instead he went and traded Phaneuf and Jokinen in two horrible deals.

I've long wondered what that team looks like if they like Darryl fire his brother and return behind the bench like he wanted.

That team was 23-12-5 with a .638 points percentage on December 31st 2009.

The team went 5-8-3 from Jan 1st to Jan 30 and the rumours were Darryl wanted to fire Brent.

Darryl made the cardinal sin of GMing and make trades from a position of weakness in the middle of the slump, traded Dion and Jokinen, and the team just spiraled the rest of the season.

His time in LA and now again in Calgary shows that had they just let him go back behind the bench it likely would have cured what ailed that team.

Crazy to think that on Dec 31st 2009 we had that good of a record and things looked to be trending well, one year later on Dec 28th 2010 Darryl stepped down as GM of the team.

Wasn't it Ken King and the owners who wanted Brent in the first place?

Man if they had only fired Brent and not Darryl we should have had those 2 cups the Kings won.

[EVERLAST]

I Hate seeing people dis Gio.

People have short memories though.

Scott Bowman once named Gio the most improved player in the NHL.

Yeah, he didn't lead us into a deep playoff run with awe inspiring play like Jarome but he played his arse off while he was here.....and I bet he'd trade that Norris in a heartbeat for some kind of playoff success we never had while he was here.

[Manhattanboy]

Could not agree more re Gio. Amazing player and captain. I would welcome him back big time although hard to mess with the current chemistry.

Not easy to replace 2 first pairing D who get away but Tre seems to have done it. Quite incredible actually.

[browna]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The rumors were always that Darryl wanted to fire Brent but ownership wouldn't let him fire his brother 6 months into a 3 year contract.

So instead he went and traded Phaneuf and Jokinen in two horrible deals.

I've long wondered what that team looks like if they like Darryl fire his brother and return behind the bench like he wanted.

That team was 23-12-5 with a .638 points percentage on December 31st 2009.

The team went 5-8-3 from Jan 1st to Jan 30 and the rumours were Darryl wanted to fire Brent.

Darryl made the cardinal sin of GMing and make trades from a position of weakness in the middle of the slump, traded Dion and Jokinen, and the team just spiraled the rest of the season.

His time in LA and now again in Calgary shows that had they just let him go back behind the bench it likely would have cured what ailed that team.

Crazy to think that on Dec 31st 2009 we had that good of a record and things looked to be trending well, one year later on Dec 28th 2010 Darryl stepped down as GM of the team.

Not sure about Brent ever on the block to be fired by Darryl 3 months in. Francis in his early quest to be some “hot take” master, wrote and sensationalized the fact that Brent and Darryl didn’t talk, but that was just Brent and Darryl.

The Flames had serious injury troubles up front, and needed forwards, a main reason of the Phanuef trade, and Dion had fallen out with the locker room, so a couple factors at play.

You may be confused with the fact that Darryl wanted come back and coach after the Playfair year after losing to the Detroit, where, like GG and Ward, the players took over the room. He stepped upstairs after the ANA Game 7 loss because he thought he had to focus on the GM duties with the new salary cap rules etc but soon after missed coaching, realized the GM duties weren’t as time consuming as he thought with the help he had within the organization, and, saw the lacklustre effort the players gave vs Det. The owners wouldn’t let him come back as coach and do both duties, so he hired Keenan.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by browna

Not sure about Brent ever on the block to be fired by Darryl 3 months in. Francis in his early quest to be some “hot take” master, wrote and sensationalized the fact that Brent and Darryl didn’t talk, but that was just Brent and Darryl.

The Flames had serious injury troubles up front, and needed forwards, a main reason of the Phanuef trade, and Dion had fallen out with the locker room, so a couple factors at play.

Nope maybe it wasn't during the season but after the season but there was truth to Darryl wanting to fire Brent at some point.

Also Mike Keenan has said that Darryl never wanted to fire him to start with and I believe it was Ken King and ownership that wanted to bring in Brent.

Even Elliott Friedman was talking about Brent and Darryl's relationship on his podcast a couple weeks ago and about how it was sour at the time.

Francis is a bit of a hack but I think that was one story he was actually all over.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Nope maybe it wasn't during the season but after the season but there was truth to Darryl wanting to fire Brent at some point.

Also Mike Keenan has said that Darryl never wanted to fire him to start with and I believe it was Ken King and ownership that wanted to bring in Brent.

Even Elliott Friedman was talking about Brent and Darryl's relationship on his podcast a couple weeks ago and about how it was sour at the time.

Francis is a bit of a hack but I think that was one story he was actually all over.

Do you mean “never wanted to hire”?

[calumniate]

A lot of very imposing groups listed here. Think the main problem was we dumped sooo much of our cap space in the D corps in the past, we had to put absolute plugs in the forward ranks (aka Jamie Lundmark).

Think our overall team D is better now. Lindholm, Backlund, and eventually Ruzicka are going to soak up some of the other teams attack

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by calumniate

A lot of very imposing groups listed here. Think the main problem was we dumped sooo much of our cap space in the D corps in the past, we had to put absolute plugs in the forward ranks (aka Jamie Lundmark).

Think our overall team D is better now. Lindholm, Backlund, and eventually Ruzicka are going to soak up some of the other teams attack

That is a great point.

When you factor-in the cap hit, this crew is pretty impressive. $20.45M on an $81.5M cap - that is an absolute bargain for a team that leads the league in goals against.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Do you mean “never wanted to hire”?

Both I guess.

Never wanted to fire Keenan / Hire his brother

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

I Hate seeing people dis Gio.

People have short memories though.

Scott Bowman once named Gio the most improved player in the NHL.

Agree....although "most improved player" is just slightly better than "most spirited player". Both awards should be pushed to the back of the trophy case.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by browna

You may be confused with the fact that Darryl wanted come back and coach after the Playfair year after losing to the Detroit, where, like GG and Ward, the players took over the room. He stepped upstairs after the ANA Game 7 loss because he thought he had to focus on the GM duties with the new salary cap rules etc but soon after missed coaching, realized the GM duties weren’t as time consuming as he thought with the help he had within the organization, and, saw the lacklustre effort the players gave vs Det. The owners wouldn’t let him come back as coach and do both duties, so he hired Keenan.

The best answer would have been for Darryl to be Head Coach and President Hockey Ops with a different GM. When Darryl wanted to stop coaching again after a while, you'd still have him as a nuclear Lou Lamoreillo type option if new hires weren't working out.

[Monahammer]

Not sure if this has been shared, but as you can see from JFresh's model, the entire d squad seems to be hitting "2 way dominance" advanced numbers. That is a great sign. Looks like we're probably best in the league.