When you trade 5 players from one of the best teams in the league (including 2 key players in a Stanley Cup win) for 5 from one of the worst, the outcome should have been obvious to even the stupidest of managers. I can understand why Risebrough felt Gilmour had to go, but I’ve never read or heard any explanation from him as to why he had to throw away the other players, or why he thought any of the Toronto players were equal value.
Last edited by Steve Bozek; 01-02-2022 at 11:30 PM.
Imagine the Little Ball of Hate PLUS Fleury? That's why they'd have needed Jim McKenzie, LOL.
Risebrough made some apologies also
Quote:
“It was a mistake by a very young GM,” Risebrough admitted to the Sun’s Mike Zeisberger in 2007. “We traded the wrong guy.
“It had nothing to do with not appreciating Dougie as a player. It was a forced issue. It probably would have been better had we gone long term (with an earlier contract offer after Gilmour went to arbitration). We weren’t going to win another Cup with that team. (A trade) probably should have happened sooner.”
It's interesting Risebrough saying "we weren't going to win another Cup with that team."
Why not? Nieuwendyk, Gilmour, MacInnis, Fleury, Roberts, Makarov, Vernon and Suter with a good supporting cast of players like Ranheim, Reichel, Otto, Macoun, Musil, etc. Better than that '94 Canucks team that made it to Game 7 against the Rangers. A few tweaks in the right direction and they could have, no question.
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It's interesting Risebrough saying "we weren't going to win another Cup with that team."
Why not? Nieuwendyk, Gilmour, MacInnis, Fleury, Roberts, Makarov, Vernon and Suter with a good supporting cast of players like Ranheim, Reichel, Otto, Macoun, Musil, etc. Better than that '94 Canucks team that made it to Game 7 against the Rangers. A few tweaks in the right direction and they could have, no question.
An extremely talented team that revolted on their coach less than a year after winning the Cup and as we all know would never win another playoff series. Riser wasn't a very good coach either.
An extremely talented team that revolted on their coach less than a year after winning the Cup and as we all know would never win another playoff series. Riser wasn't a very good coach either.
That includes three Game 7 OT losses, though. A few bounces here and there, removal of the psychological barrier of not being able to get past round 1 and that team had some more deep runs in it.
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That includes three Game 7 OT losses, though. A few bounces here and there, removal of the psychological barrier of not being able to get past round 1 and that team had some more deep runs in it.
Before the Gilmour trade, I believe there was only one game 7 OT loss and that was against the Oilers.
You'd think a team that won it all wouldn't have a psychological barrier about getting past the first round but something was obviously wrong.
That includes three Game 7 OT losses, though. A few bounces here and there, removal of the psychological barrier of not being able to get past round 1 and that team had some more deep runs in it.
Wasn't there some hint that the Flames had a guy on staff that would then go to the Leafs soon after the trade that created a bit of controversy?
I think you are referring to the Pro Scout that was noted in those articles. The guy who was on a plane when the deal was made. I remember Al Coates talking about the Verbeek deal and how he had been working on that and presented it to Riser, who in essence turned up his nose and went with the Toronto deal.
If only the team had maybe put Coates in the GM chair instead of Risebrough, maybe he could have got a bit more on the back nine of that Cup core before the economics started forcing those guys out of town. Riser managed to do Kevin Lowe like damage to the Flames in like 5 years...Jerk.
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This trade was before my time as a Flames Fan. To me though (correct me if I'm wrong ) it signaled the end of a era of dominance and the beginning of a lengthy dark time for a franchise. Not long after many of the other cup heroes had left and the young guns were born.
Its funny looking back on the worst trades of all time and arguably you could say we have had 3 of the top 5.
Older Flames and NHL watchers will tell you that the flames were gifted a cup by St.Louis by fleecing their GM. (Mullen/Gilmour/Nattress), but in same token we traded away to them one of the best goalscorers in history in Hull. Some of my older friends will claim we wouldn't have won the cup without Ramage but I digress
Gilmour/Hull/Phaneuf, in my opinion 3 of the worst 5 trades in NHL history.
Last edited by TheChief; 01-03-2022 at 10:40 AM.
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Gilmour/Hull/Phaneuf, in my opinion 3 of the worst 5 trades in NHL history.
In hindsight I'm not so sure the Phaneuf trade is as bad as it's made out to be. Sure many would have preferred a more Future's based package to come back. But who knows what other teams really would have paid.
It does appear with hindsight that the Flames sold a guy who was starting to show damage and wear who was going to be paid a lot more money than he was worth. With all the moaning about Monahan these days...well that's sort of what the Flames did with Dion. Traded him for less than perceived value to shed some poor value contract years.
__________________ "Some guys like old balls"
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This trade was before my time as a Flames Fan. To me though (correct me if I'm wrong ) it signaled the end of a era of dominance and the beginning of a lengthy dark time for a franchise. Not long after many of the other cup heroes had left and the young guns were born.
Its funny looking back on the worst trades of all time and arguably you could say we have had 3 of the top 5.
Older Flames and NHL watchers will tell you that the flames were gifted a cup by St.Louis by fleecing their GM. (Mullen/Gilmour/Nattress), but in same token we traded away to them one of the best goalscorers in history in Hull. Some of my older friends will claim we wouldn't have won the cup without Ramage but I digress
Gilmour/Hull/Phaneuf, in my opinion 3 of the worst 5 trades in NHL history.
Gilmour trade one of the worst ever no doubt. It was bad at the time and it as it aged, it got even worse.
Phaneuf looked almost as bad at the time, but got better with age. Still, should have been able to get more for him. Not an all time bad trade though IMO.
The Hull trade is different. Do they win the Cup without Ramage who was a solid addition? Who knows but I think you can argue that Hull should have fetched more, even at the time.
Before my time, but I always thought Gilmour was getting traded no matter what because of contract negotiations.
This trade was just abhorrent, but Gilmour had to go and other GMs knew it.
This is correct. Though it wasn’t contract negotiations per se, he was pissed because of his existing contract and overhearing management talk about him IIRC.
But yeah, that being the case, they should have just traded him and him alone. I have no idea why Macoun had to go. The rest of the trade was just filler.
This trade was before my time as a Flames Fan. To me though (correct me if I'm wrong ) it signaled the end of a era of dominance and the beginning of a lengthy dark time for a franchise. Not long after many of the other cup heroes had left and the young guns were born.
Its funny looking back on the worst trades of all time and arguably you could say we have had 3 of the top 5.
Older Flames and NHL watchers will tell you that the flames were gifted a cup by St.Louis by fleecing their GM. (Mullen/Gilmour/Nattress), but in same token we traded away to them one of the best goalscorers in history in Hull. Some of my older friends will claim we wouldn't have won the cup without Ramage but I digress
Gilmour/Hull/Phaneuf, in my opinion 3 of the worst 5 trades in NHL history.
This is a really interesting question.
The caveats with the Hull and Phaneuf trades mitigate them a bit.
Selanne, Roy, Neely, Messier are all pretty brutal (though I'd need to freshen up on contract statuses and the other considerations there)
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