BC to become first province with prescribed safe supply

[dammage79]

And I've seen first hand how some pharmacists interact with suboxone prescription users, making recovering addicts feel worse about themselves. Seriously, it's degrading.

They're trying to get clean and you're treating them like trash? GTFO.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

And now, after 4.5 decades of that, the government is like "Nope, we've changed our minds. Let's give these addicts their drugs". So there's a part of me that's like "So now we're giving out free drugs? I've been told my entire life drugs are bad, and we're GIVING them out now? WTF?" Most of me realizes that that part of me is more hindbrain, but it's still there.

It's not "government just suddenly deciding." We have 50 years of evidence that the war on drugs is a massive failure and that treating addiction as a crime and moral failing has led us to where we are now. We also have examples of the prescribed safe supply model being successful at reducing overdoses in other countries.

I agree that major structural investments need to be made alongside this or it's not going to be as successful as it should be, but this is exactly what evidenced-based policy looks like.

My one concern is that, with this being the first program of its kind tried in Canada, that people are going to be looking for reasons for it to fail. There are almost assuredly going to be hiccups along the way. If it's not immediately successful, I hope people have the patience to let the government tweak the program instead of demanding it be scrapped altogether.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by dammage79

And I've seen first hand how some pharmacists interact with suboxone prescription users, making recovering addicts feel worse about themselves. Seriously, it's degrading.

They're trying to get clean and you're treating them like trash? GTFO.

I am slightly worried about the prescription-based model because how many of the most severe addicts will actually take the time or have the mental capacity to seek out a prescription?

It's definitely not a magic bullet to preventing all overdoses, but it will probably help high-functioning addicts and could help more if there's a proper outreach program to coincide with it.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Speaking solely for myself...it feels like the government is using 'my' money to reward bad/addictive behavior. I realize that it's a 'me' issue, and that this is probably one of the better options to actually help these people.

I mean, I've been told all my life that drugs are bad. I've been through almost all of the 'war on drugs'. I've grown up through the "Just Say No" campaign. I've been told my entire life that if you are a drug addict, you are a bad person and it's your fault and you should feel bad about it.

And now, after 4.5 decades of that, the government is like "Nope, we've changed our minds. Let's give these addicts their drugs". So there's a part of me that's like "So now we're giving out free drugs? I've been told my entire life drugs are bad, and we're GIVING them out now? WTF?" Most of me realizes that that part of me is more hindbrain, but it's still there.

I realize that it's a sort of knee-jerk reaction in me, and I'm dealing with it. But that doesn't change how it feels right now. It kind of feels like I've spent my entire life being the 'good, responsible' child, and now my parents are asking me to loan my irresponsible ne'er-do-well brother MORE money, due to his bad decisions.

Yeah, the Just Say No crap messed with me for a long time. Whenever we'd smoke up for the longest time I'd tell myself it was just fake fun because drugs are bad until I finally realized we'd been pedaled a load of propaganda. Had I not had experiences with more open minded people in my late teens and early 20s, I'd probably be in the same boat as you.

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Yes, actually. My parents were very much against 'choice' vices like drinking, smoking and drugs, and if you 'fell into that trap', it was your own fault and your responsibility to take care of. I realize my case is far from the norm in that regard.

Yeah, those attitudes and beliefs we're raised with can ingrain pretty deep.

I think with this program, though, they're endeavoring to help the addicts, save the taxpayers money and provide some relief to first responders. Seems like it's worth trying IMO.

[blankall]

A major thing people need to consider is that many drug addicts are drug addicts because they are fleeing (either psychologically or literally) a history of extreme trauma. Many are survivors of residential schools, sexual and/or physical abuse, have independent mental illness, etc...Sobering up means being left alone with the demons. It's not always as simple as people taking responsibility for their own actions.

Currently, BC is on pace for over 2000 deaths this year. More than from Covid...so something has to be done.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by blankall

A major thing people need to consider is that many drug addicts are drug addicts because they are fleeing (either psychologically or literally) a history of extreme trauma. Many are survivors of residential schools, sexual and/or physical abuse, have independent mental illness, etc...Sobering up means being left alone with the demons. It's not always as simple as people taking responsibility for their own actions.

This doesn't even account for genetic factors. It's pretty hard to say someone's addiction problems are their own poor choices or lack of responsibility when they've been predisposed to it since the day they were born.

Currently, BC is on pace for over 2000 deaths this year. More than from Covid...so something has to be done.

The problem is that everyone is aware that covid could happen to them, or their family, so they want that dealt with urgently. Whereas there will always be a segment of the population that sees overdose deaths as a solution, rather than a problem, whether or not they'll actually express those views outwardly. The former gets panic and calls for action, the latter gets shrugged shoulders.

[TherapyforGlencross]

I work at a homeless shelter on the side. It’s completely anecdotal, but overdoes have seemed to really increase since Covid, as rumours state that fentanyl has taken over the game, rather than heroin. Heroin is difficult to find nowadays. While I don’t live in BC, this makes me happy. Maybe there’s a chance of this spreading to other provinces. I am hopeful there’s a less chance of death for the user, meaning a less chance for myself not to perform compressions, narcan, or seeing someone’s puke or blood fly up from their mouth while I’m compressing them. Graphic, but it’s the nature. Illicit drugs are terrible.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The problem is that everyone is aware that covid could happen to them, or their family, so they want that dealt with urgently. Whereas there will always be a segment of the population that sees overdose deaths as a solution, rather than a problem, whether or not they'll actually express those views outwardly. The former gets panic and calls for action, the latter gets shrugged shoulders.

Yeah, the social Darwinists love overdose deaths. Dated a girl whose family were all of that mindset. I stopped attending family dinners after that conversation came up.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, the social Darwinists love overdose deaths. Dated a girl whose family were all of that mindset. I stopped attending family dinners after that conversation came up.

And they always assume people who die of overdoses are street junkies who made poor life choices and "got what was coming to them". It never occurs to them that a fentanyl addict could be someone just like them: an upstanding, law-abiding middle class citizen who suffered an injury, was hospitalized, was given prescription painkillers by medical professionals, followed their doctors' instructions to the letter, and developed an addition to opioids.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

And they always assume people who die of overdoses are street junkies who made poor life choices and "got what was coming to them". It never occurs to them that a fentanyl addict could be someone just like them: an upstanding, law-abiding middle class citizen who suffered an injury, was hospitalized, was given prescription painkillers by medical professionals, followed their doctors' instructions to the letter, and developed an addition to opioids.

Most Social Darwinists are fascist or fascism-adjacent, so they probably don't care either way.

[habernac]

Tom Petty and Prince died trying to manage pain with fentanyl. These aren't skid row homeless people, it's a real issue. A guy I grew up with died from it. He was a successful lawyer, died because he made a poor choice when he bought something on the street. A woman I know, same thing happened.

These people need access to supervised consumption, addiction services, rehab, etc. Isn't it Portugal that basically legalized everything and addiction rates went down in a big way? Go off of that format and improve on it if we can.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by habernac

Tom Petty and Prince died trying to manage pain with fentanyl. These aren't skid row homeless people, it's a real issue. A guy I grew up with died from it. He was a successful lawyer, died because he made a poor choice when he bought something on the street. A woman I know, same thing happened.

These people need access to supervised consumption, addiction services, rehab, etc. Isn't it Portugal that basically legalized everything and addiction rates went down in a big way? Go off of that format and improve on it if we can.

Portugal decriminalized possession for personal use in 2001:

https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug...ecord-straight

Basically, all their indicators show that drug use, overdose, crime, disease transmission etc.. have all decreased substantially in relation to the rest of the EU.

More or less proof that the war on drugs does not work.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by habernac

Tom Petty and Prince died trying to manage pain with fentanyl. These aren't skid row homeless people, it's a real issue. A guy I grew up with died from it. He was a successful lawyer, died because he made a poor choice when he bought something on the street. A woman I know, same thing happened.

These people need access to supervised consumption, addiction services, rehab, etc. Isn't it Portugal that basically legalized everything and addiction rates went down in a big way? Go off of that format and improve on it if we can.

I think this is a good idea and if it helps someone then it’s a success. The only issue is this program needs to be defined in its scope and realistic. If it’s viewed as some panacea to the opioid crisis then it will fail. In my experience I’ve seen the majority of addicts seek out fentanyl rather than avoid it. It’s a difficult problem to solve but this is a step in the right direction.

[Stillman16]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Yes, actually. My parents were very much against 'choice' vices like drinking, smoking and drugs, and if you 'fell into that trap', it was your own fault and your responsibility to take care of. I realize my case is far from the norm in that regard.

Understandable, but perhaps the way you should try to look at it is this, hopefully this new program will offset, and even reduce the current costs of the epidemic.

Currently, the OD's have large costs that are piling up--deaths, theft, violence, broken families, snowballing family effects (next generation falling down same hole), children in foster care, emergency services (ambulance, police), damage to property, fueling the black market (gangs), taking up space/resources everyday emergencies need, etc.

If the the new program can reduce these costs, and help the addicts ween off the drugs as well, could end up SAVING you money!

I don't want my tax dollars going to pay for others vices, but fact is, my tax dollars already go to dealing with the fallout from them anyway, so if we can instead break the cycle, AND help them get clean/sober, for less $$$....

[Locke]

This program will likely be riddled with problems, mistakes and inefficiencies.

Especially because in Canada its effectively a Pilot project (unless I'm mistaken) and thats always going to include some bumps in the road.

But lets not let 'Perfect' be the enemy of 'Good' here, there is a legitimate crisis going on here....they have to try something and this seems as good an idea as any.

Maybe this will be a nightmare for 3-5 years and then sort itself out?

I dont know. It just seems to me that 'something' is a far better alternative than 'nothing.'

And I know people of the fiscal/social Conservative type will point to the Cost, but have you seen the deficits and debt-loads across this Country? Fiscal Conservatism in our lifetimes is dead.

[DevilsAdvocate]

What is really messed up is that this epidemic is not 100% people that started taking illegal drugs for kicks. Sure there is some of that. But there are also others that were told by their doctors to take this stuff and end up addicted.

I certainly don't prescribe to the notion that "they made a mistake so they deserve to die". But even most unsympathetic have to feel for those that ended up addicted based on following medical advice.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I am a firefighter in Vancouver and am face to face with the opioid epidemic at a level not many people can understand. It's hard to put into words how defeating this problem is, how all encompassing it can be sometimes, and how the ripple effect of this problem means high burnout rates with our partner agencies like paramedics and other first responders and less adequate resources and care for other people calling 911 who aren't overdosing. I am hopeful that this can do some help, but harm reduction measures like this and safe injection sites are just a bandaid masking so many other humongous problems that need to be tackled upstream, serious investments in mental health support, better treatment and support of those with chronic health issues that doesn't involve prescribing opioids, more supportive housing the list goes on and on. I am sure that this program aims to direct those on the safe supply to these supports. I guess when when you revive the same person who has overdosed three times in one day it's hard to get optimistic about these sorts of things.

You're one of the guys that has helped my old foster kid living on the DTES survive 36 overdoses, you have my thanks and admiration, I go pick him up from SRO's to get some shopping and a coffee, the 'hotels' are a scene from hell, corridors scattered with stolen bikes and used needles, reeking of piss and always loud no matter what time it is, passed out bodies in the the corners, the older residents have that wierd stopped over gait from to much meth use I believe.

I dont care what they try, any and everything, if it just helps some it is still worth doing.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

What is really messed up is that this epidemic is not 100% people that started taking illegal drugs for kicks. Sure there is some of that. But there are also others that were told by their doctors to take this stuff and end up addicted.

I certainly don't prescribe to the notion that "they made a mistake so they deserve to die". But even most unsympathetic have to feel for those that ended up addicted based on following medical advice.

The majority, if not most, do not start taking fentanyl just for kicks, as a heads up.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

The majority, if not most, do not start taking fentanyl just for kicks, as a heads up.

This is what I always say to people who make the "addiction is a choice" argument. How many times in your life have you thought "Hey, maybe I'll start doing heroin/fentanyl for fun?"

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by habernac

Tom Petty and Prince died trying to manage pain with fentanyl. These aren't skid row homeless people, it's a real issue. A guy I grew up with died from it. He was a successful lawyer, died because he made a poor choice when he bought something on the street. A woman I know, same thing happened.

These people need access to supervised consumption, addiction services, rehab, etc. Isn't it Portugal that basically legalized everything and addiction rates went down in a big way? Go off of that format and improve on it if we can.

I believe and this is pulled from a concussion addled brain and super simple terms, but in Portugal essentially it is legal to use drugs but illegal to sell drugs.

Drug addicts get help and scumbag dealers that take advantage of those with additions get jail.

That being said anyone has a great reference to read re: Portugal and their approach to drugs I would love it.