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Old 06-28-2021, 11:20 AM   #41
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A neighboring building at 8877 Collins Avenue is nearly identical to the one that collapsed... yah, I'm not getting any sleep if I'm living there.
Try selling it now for anywhere near the market value a week ago.

Obviously not the main concern here, but just a crappy situation for a lot of reasons.
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Old 06-28-2021, 11:50 AM   #42
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I'd say this is more climate and natural conditions that climate change.
Building structures on sand, swamp, and apparently fill is not a good recipe. Throw in high amounts of rain and storms and you would think this would happen more often.
Yes climate change exacerbates the severity of the storms but I think this happens regardless of climate change.
Building on those barrier islands just doesn’t seem like a great idea.
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Old 06-28-2021, 12:54 PM   #43
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How much salt water induced decay is there building right on the water/beach is there?
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Old 06-28-2021, 07:40 PM   #44
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Try selling it now for anywhere near the market value a week ago.

Obviously not the main concern here, but just a crappy situation for a lot of reasons.
Apparently, people are self-evacuating the building.

After Champlain Towers South collapse, some residents evacuate Champlain East and North

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“Given that the sister building is called Champlain Towers, given that the building was apparently built by the same developer, given that the building was probably built with the same plans and the same materials, I can’t tell people that it’s a safe building,” [Mayor] Burkett said.
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Old 06-28-2021, 07:42 PM   #45
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Jesus how comfortable would you be living in a high-rise anywhere near this place?
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Old 06-28-2021, 07:50 PM   #46
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Jesus how comfortable would you be living in a high-rise anywhere near this place?
No kidding. Property values must be going right in the toilet. That said I don't think real estate in Miami is necessarily a great buy in general given that the whole place is probably going to be underwater in a few decades.
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Old 06-29-2021, 03:09 AM   #47
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How much salt water induced decay is there building right on the water/beach is there?
The lady who died on the phone on the 4th floor said to her boyfriend the "pool is sinking" or something to that effect, I wouldn't be shocked if an investigation shows the pool was leaking for years and wasn't properly fixed, chlorine mixed with water is nasty on concrete sealers leading to corrosion of the rebar inside.

Either way, we will see rusted/corroded rebar and someone is going to be in major ##### for really bad maintenance.
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Old 06-29-2021, 05:50 AM   #48
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The lady who died on the phone on the 4th floor said to her boyfriend the "pool is sinking" or something to that effect, I wouldn't be shocked if an investigation shows the pool was leaking for years and wasn't properly fixed, chlorine mixed with water is nasty on concrete sealers leading to corrosion of the rebar inside.

Either way, we will see rusted/corroded rebar and someone is going to be in major ##### for really bad maintenance.
Saw an interview with the former maintenance guy for this building and his claim was that when they flooded, it was sea water that got into the lower levels and eroded the concrete and rebar underneath. He said at times he had two pumps going to send it back out into the drainage system.

You have to think that the water table for that area is not very deep considering its proximity to the shoreline.
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:35 PM   #49
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Yikes. Details starting to come out: extensive repairs needed in 2018 at a cost of $9M; cost increased to $15M as the deterioration escalated.

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Before a large portion of Champlain Towers South came smashing down, the building's condo board sent a letter to residents noting significant deterioration and explaining the need for a $15 million special assessment to be paid by members.

The letter obtained by NPR, and first published in full by The Wall Street Journal, was sent before the condominium association's board meeting in April. It is signed by Jean Wodnicki, president of the board of directors of the condo association.

In the letter, Wodnicki said discussion of construction and the related expenses had stretched for months and years. "As this work has become so all-consuming for us, this summary could perhaps be called a report on the 'State of the Building,' " she wrote.

The memo outlined how engineer Frank Morabito was hired in 2018 to do an inspection of the building and provide an initial estimate in advance of its required 40-year inspection in 2021.

But since then, Wodnicki wrote, the cost of the work had increased as the building's condition had deteriorated significantly and visibly.

"Among other things, that estimate indicated that the concrete damage observed would begin to multiply exponentially over the years, and indeed the observable damage such as in the garage has gotten significantly worse since the initial inspection," Wodnicki wrote. "When you can visually see the concrete spalling (cracking), that means that the rebar holding it together is rusting and deteriorating beneath the surface."

And she warned that the scope of work had expanded since the initial 2018 report: "The concrete deterioration is accelerating. The roof situation got much worse, so extensive roof repairs had to be incorporated."

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-up...ficantly-worse
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:38 PM   #50
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Abandon your home or risk death. Tough call. If there were any landlord owners who had renters that died, I imagine they'll get sued into oblivion for knowingly renting in an unsafe building.

For the owners, I'd guess many of them didn't want to abandon their home and decided the risk was worth it. Some of them probably didn't even pay attention to all the condo corp stuff, few owners do.
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Old 06-29-2021, 01:06 PM   #51
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I'm sure most people who knew didn't expect a total collapse and didn't think twice about living there or renting out. When was the last time a building collapsed in America? It won't happen to me.

This is likely to serve as an eye opener and case to emphazise the importance of inspections and repairs and I'm sure there will be a massive lawsuit.

If it was so critical wouldn't that report have been used to condemn the building? Or is this mostly 20/20 hindsight.
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Old 06-29-2021, 01:14 PM   #52
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It makes me wonder about the crappy condos that were built here in the Vancouver area. I have heard stories about a lot of them needing fairly extensive restoration. I assumed most of it was cosmetic, but now I have to wonder.
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Old 06-29-2021, 01:15 PM   #53
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If it was so critical wouldn't that report have been used to condemn the building? Or is this mostly 20/20 hindsight.
Yeah, if the engineer suspected serious structural concerns that put the building at risk of collapse, it would have been condemned. And it's also a bit premature to assume that the defects in the concrete noted in the report are what caused the collapse. It's possible that this was a result of the ground shifting under the building, either due to poor water management weakening the soil or perhaps even a sinkhole.

Regardless, I think this should (and will) serve as a wake up call regarding the regulation and maintenance of large buildings in that area, and potentially everywhere.
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Old 06-29-2021, 01:34 PM   #54
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I'm sure most people who knew didn't expect a total collapse and didn't think twice about living there or renting out. When was the last time a building collapsed in America? It won't happen to me.

This is likely to serve as an eye opener and case to emphazise the importance of inspections and repairs and I'm sure there will be a massive lawsuit.

If it was so critical wouldn't that report have been used to condemn the building? Or is this mostly 20/20 hindsight.
New Orleans, only 20 months ago?
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Old 06-29-2021, 02:11 PM   #55
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I'm sure most people who knew didn't expect a total collapse and didn't think twice about living there or renting out. When was the last time a building collapsed in America? It won't happen to me.

This is likely to serve as an eye opener and case to emphazise the importance of inspections and repairs and I'm sure there will be a massive lawsuit.

If it was so critical wouldn't that report have been used to condemn the building? Or is this mostly 20/20 hindsight.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4418391

It almost happened in Kensington a few years ago.

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New Orleans, only 20 months ago?
Another city built below sea level
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Old 06-29-2021, 04:20 PM   #56
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New Orleans, only 20 months ago?
Ya I was sure there would be one or two, it wasn't really the point of my post. It's a pretty uncommon thing, particularly in NA, and I doubt anyone loses sleep thinking of the possibility. It's kinda how life is, until it happens to you or someone you know it's not really real.
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Old 06-29-2021, 05:30 PM   #57
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It makes me wonder about the crappy condos that were built here in the Vancouver area. I have heard stories about a lot of them needing fairly extensive restoration. I assumed most of it was cosmetic, but now I have to wonder.
wood frame construction has some advantages, it isnt as heavy and as prone to pancaking as concrete
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Old 06-29-2021, 06:00 PM   #58
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wood frame construction has some advantages, it isnt as heavy and as prone to pancaking as concrete
They have a height restriction I believe.
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Old 06-29-2021, 06:35 PM   #59
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They have a height restriction I believe.
yes, both provincial and curtesy of Isaac Newton
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Old 06-29-2021, 09:11 PM   #60
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my info could be a little old, but I think Alberta and BC have been at about 5 story max for wood, and have been considering jumping to 12 story for CLT. There is certainly a chance we could start to see big changes in mid-rise residential construction.
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