2021: Vatican Calls Homosexuality a "Sin"

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Being raised catholic, and living as a fairly "casual" catholic, the bolded is absolutely no business of any one individual to do this. I know there is something about "not judging others" that we are all to live by.

The church labels homosexuality as a sin along with many other common place sins; abortion, divorce, adultery, pre marital sex, masturbation, suicide, drug abuse, and on and on. Now if someone completely dis agrees with religion, or is totally apathetic with regards to religion, or is an atheist, what bearing does the Catholic churches stance have on any of this? You can be a catholic yet still not hold the same views as the church on every single matter. And I know myself along with many more "staunch Catholics" believe this and live this way.

Well, today their statement was about homosexuality, which is why it's being discussed. Yes I know they have moronic views on other issues as well and I'm happy to discuss them if you want.

But what bearing does this have on people who are not Catholics? That has to be the least thoughtful statement I have ever read. They are telling their billion plus members the sexual identity, lifestyle, and social structure of an entire group of people is an affront to the most powerful being in the universe and will result in toiling away in the depths of hell for all eternity. This is offensive to anybody with a modicum of critical thinking skills and empathy. The effects of doctrine like this are not confined to just people within the church - although I do feel bad for members this will undoubtedly affect - but to societies as a whole who draw from the Vatican to influence behaviours and even legislation.

To ignore that is weird.

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The catholic church has become the whipping boy when it comes to religion however. Ask the Baptists, the Mormons, the Buddhists and Islamists what their churches stance is on homosexual relationships and the true answers will be far worse then "they are sinners'. While you are at it ask the Mormons what their stance is on those of African American heritage. I mean based on any and all religions we are all sinners. The catholic stance on this is no different then most every other religion in the world. They are not setting same sex couples on fire or throwing them off of bridges.

The whipping boy? lol, they just released a statement to their over-billion followers informing them that gay relationships are sinful. They went out of their way to dehumanize a group of people based on their sexual orientation, yet they're the victim because some of us object to that?

And not setting gay people on fire? It's worse, isn't it? By labelling them sinners, won't they burn in the pits of hell for all eternity and never get to ascend to heaven and where they can worship god forever?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That's disappointing. Even early 18th century pirates had more progressive views on these issues.

Well they were surrounded by Seaman


Bump dum tish

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Locke

In their defence though....they were stranded on ships for long stretches of time surrounded by nothing but wood, water and other dudes.

True for the most part, but some ships did have females and they also spent months at a time in land ports.

They also had strict rules for how men treated females who were part of the crew. Basically, if she wanted to do the deed, she would let you know. Any harassment, attempts at coercion, or assaults were punishable by immediate death.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

I agree with a lot of what you've said.
To be clear: Catholic doctrine does not 100% align with Christianity... don't ask me for specifics but it's more staunch. Just like Baptists or Mormons etc... Yes there are shades of grey, so to speak. But also Christians as individuals have their own brains and prejudices and can make their own good/bad/ethical/moral-based decisions. Just like non-Christians. But so far this whole thread seems to be railing on at others about judging... Prejudice comes in many flavors for sure.



To me this current subject matter really is just a distraction from much larger and more pressing issues in my life... such as job security, covid, liberal government, Alberta's economy, future of our youth, etc...

What does this mean? You know Catholics are the first and "original" Christians, right?

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Is that how you justify bigotry? Others do it to, and worse, so it's fine if my club does it? If you support an organization that discriminates on things like gender and sexuality, I'm sorry to break the news to you, but you are part of the problem.

Edited too late for you?

Sorry I don't live in a black and white world. We (wife and I) go to church to remind our selves of how to live a more fulfilling, peaceful and positive life. Being charitable, non judgmental, living with forgiveness, being respectful of and helping others and having a deeper love and understanding for each other as well as others in general are just a few of my takeaways. For this I live with the endless jokes and ridicule about Catholics, religion, priests, and so on. I even make my own jokes.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Sorry I don't live in a black and white world. We (wife and I) go to church to remind our selves of how to live a more fulfilling, peaceful and positive life. Being charitable, non judgmental, living with forgiveness, being respectful of and helping others and having a deeper love and understanding for each other as well as others in general are just a few of my takeaways.

I try to live my life in this way and I don't believe in Sky Daddy.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The catholic church has become the whipping boy when it comes to religion however. Ask the Baptists, the Mormons, the Buddhists and Islamists what their churches stance is on homosexual relationships and the true answers will be far worse then "they are sinners'. While you are at it ask the Mormons what their stance is on those of African American heritage. I mean based on any and all religions we are all sinners. The catholic stance on this is no different then most every other religion in the world, while some other relgions still believe in stoning gays, setting them on fore or throwing them off of bridges.

There's the whataboutism I was waiting for.

The fact that other religions are worse in some ways does not excuse the Catholic church.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Edited too late for you?

Sorry I don't live in a black and white world. We (wife and I) go to church to remind our selves of how to live a more fulfilling, peaceful and positive life. Being charitable, non judgmental, living with forgiveness, being respectful of and helping others and having a deeper love and understanding for each other as well as others in general are just a few of my takeaways.

You don't see the issue in stating the above? You accept broad statements made by an organization, which you openly support, judging and convicting others based on nothing but their sexual orientation.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Flacker

You don't see the issue in stating the above? You accept broad statements made by an organization, which you openly support, judging and convicting others based on nothing but their sexual orientation.

Being proud of being non-judgmental is dumb, anyway. It's just another way of saying, 'I don't think critically.'

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Edited too late for you?

Sorry I don't live in a black and white world. We (wife and I) go to church to remind our selves of how to live a more fulfilling, peaceful and positive life. Being charitable, non judgmental, living with forgiveness, being respectful of and helping others and having a deeper love and understanding for each other as well as others in general are just a few of my takeaways.

But that's the opposite of their teachings. Do you not see the problem there? "We judge that homosexual relationships are not equivalent to heterosexual ones". Is that a statement you support? Because if you give them money, that's what you are doing.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Edited too late for you?

Sorry I don't live in a black and white world. We (wife and I) go to church to remind our selves of how to live a more fulfilling, peaceful and positive life. Being charitable, non judgmental, living with forgiveness, being respectful of and helping others and having a deeper love and understanding for each other as well as others in general are just a few of my takeaways.

You know God wasn't in the meetings at the Vatican helping write this statement, though, right? Like, this was done by men. Old virgins. Guys who studied old books, not modern psychology and science. If you are looking to live a peaceful, positive life while being respectful and helping others have a deeper love and understanding for each other then I can't think of a worse place to go than to church on Sunday. There are people reading this that the church has decided today shall be going to hell for being sinners. And you support that. It's completely messed up, dude.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Being raised catholic, and living as a fairly "casual" catholic, the bolded is absolutely no business of any one individual to do this. I know there is something about "not judging others" that we are all to live by. We have gay members in our family and friends who are gay. We love them and support them unconditionally, I don't care what any religious stance is. I look at church like I do the sales training courses I am required to take. You have to determine what applies to you and what doesn't, and take from it what is going to help you in life going forward. Really there should be a "new modern catholic" branch would openly condemn the past acts of pedophilia, greed and bigotry while embracing new ways of thinking and beliefs.

-snip-

OK, so I see you edited that. Why not reject the Catholic Church and join one that does align with your beliefs? I didn't think Catholicism was a choose your own menu type of thing. But there are churches that could use support that reject the discrimination perpetuated by the Catholic Church. Maybe if enough people stood up to their convictions and left, they would change their tune. But if they don't see that rejection, they continue their discrimination. That's my point here.

[Locke]

What happened? Why did they feel that March 15th 2021 was their opportune moment to remind us that they still dont like Gay People?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

I agree with a lot of what you've said.
To be clear: Catholic doctrine does not 100% align with Christianity... don't ask me for specifics but it's more staunch. Just like Baptists or Mormons etc... Yes there are shades of grey, so to speak. But also Christians as individuals have their own brains and prejudices and can make their own good/bad/ethical/moral-based decisions. Just like non-Christians. But so far this whole thread seems to be railing on at others about judging... Prejudice comes in many flavors for sure.



To me this current subject matter really is just a distraction from much larger and more pressing issues in my life... such as job security, covid, liberal government, Alberta's economy, future of our youth, etc...

Mormons aren't Christian. Baptists yes, Mormons no.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Locke

What happened? Why did they feel that March 15th 2021 was their opportune moment to remind us that they still dont like Gay People?

The Pope was being too progressive so they had to reset the clock per say.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Flacker

You don't see the issue in stating the above? You accept broad statements made by an organization, which you openly support, judging and convicting others based on nothing but their sexual orientation.

He’s pretty clearly already stated that he does not apply every aspect of the teachings to his life.

Atheists are way worse than vegetarians. We’re morally superior, we get it. The world is nuanced, and community is really really important for a lot of people. They aren’t the minority, those of us who claim to be atheists are, and it doesn’t necessarily make us better people for it.

You can love you family, go to Sunday dinner, and not reject your father because you don’t agree with everything he believes in. A guy states the positive reasons he goes to church and we throw out insulting terms at him? Awesome.

[Derek Sutton]

You all do realize that you can attend catholic church, have your own beliefs while not fully endorsing every single stance the church has on every single subject right? Not everything is all or nothing.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

You all do realize that you can attend catholic church, have your own beliefs while not fully endorsing every single stance the church has on every single subject right? Not everything is all or nothing.

Hell is all or nothing.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by 81MC

He’s pretty clearly already stated that he does not apply every aspect of the teachings to his life.

Atheists are way worse than vegetarians. We’re morally superior, we get it. The world is nuanced, and community is really really important for a lot of people. They aren’t the minority, those of us who claim to be atheists are, and it doesn’t necessarily make us better people for it.

You can love you family, go to Sunday dinner, and not reject your father because you don’t agree with everything he believes in. A guy states the positive reasons he goes to church and we throw out insulting terms at him? Awesome.

Poor example, you don't get to choose your family, you 100% get to choose the religion you follow and support financially.

There are tons of protestant religions for a reason, they disagreed with doctrines of the Catholic church, and choose change instead of the status quo, and went out on their own. The King wanted a divorce and didn't want to burn in eternal hell, better start a new church.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

You all do realize that you can attend catholic church, have your own beliefs while not fully endorsing every single stance the church has on every single subject right? Not everything is all or nothing.

What would shake your allegiance then, if anything? Obviously you are Catholic based on nothing more than geography. Born in Iran, you'd be Muslim. We all would be. It's not like you investigated all available religions and settled on this one because it was more right than all the others. It's the one you happened into. They shelter pedophiles and you're still part of the organization. They've confirmed today gay people are going to hell, but you still don't seem phased by that at all. I guess ride or die?