Would You Eat Synthetic Beef?

[calgarygeologist]

I can't wait until we don't have to eat at all. Just get our calories from drinks and nutrients/vitamins from capsules. Eating food will be a luxury for the rich and something that the regular population might do for a special occassion.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

There's not much to debunk. The guy isn't wrong, cattle don't make up the majority of GHG. But they make up a huge significant portion and he doesn't disagree with that, just that they aren't the only reason which is...duh.

A lot of it depends on how the cows are fed. Cows grazing on a grassland are theoretically just eating recaptured carbon, from the grass growing there. Obviously, there are other inputs, but it's an entirely different story than an animal in a feed lot.

Cows produce more methane, which has a much greater warming effect than CO2, but methane also has a relatively short half life (9.1 years) and doesn't stick around long term.

So yes, you can measure the GHG output of any cow, but you also have to account for the carbon capture coming from the grass they eat. If done properly, the increase in soil quality from the cows can actually result in a net decrease in GHG emissions:

https://research.msu.edu/msu-researc...t-environment/

Of course, all this relies on buying local, which isn't that hard. I've gone in on multiple full cow purchases with friends. You can store the meat in a freezer for about 1.5 years, without any negative effects, as it gets flash frozen. You can buy cows in quarters, halves, or full.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Cain

I'm all in for lab grown meats.


Anything we can do to eliminate some contributors to climate change is worthwhile. I know that not all farms are complicit in the poor treatment of farm animals, but there are many where conditions are not ideal or downright terrible. I always feel a bit poorly thinking about this, it has never really sat well with me.



If the lab grown meat is close to the same quality or better, I'll be switching over 100% as long as it isn't prohibitively expensive. I think that as they get better at it, there will be interesting opportunities for certain cuts of meat that are tougher to get your hands on or even improved upon.


Honestly I can't wait for this revolution.

You do raise some good points, and I agree with the sentiment of your statement but I would like to educate you a little.

Most ( not all) animals are raised on pasture grass seasonally. This land, is 100% more biodiverse than any crop land ever, even the organic stuff. So with that in mind, animal farming gives people financial incentive to promote biodiversity on their land, the healthier the fix of veg, the healthier the sheep, goat, cow ect... This land, that people can make a living on, is also the home to a constellation of insects, and thus birds, and mammals.

Carbon is only a part of the equation.

[Mull]

Yup would definitely try synthetic beef.
Not sure if I would take it over real beef but would definitely try it

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Do things like 50:50 synthetic/regular ground meats and start there.

I've seen ads for 50/50 beef/plant protein but haven't seen it in stores.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

You do raise some good points, and I agree with the sentiment of your statement but I would like to educate you a little.

Most ( not all) animals are raised on pasture grass seasonally. This land, is 100% more biodiverse than any crop land ever, even the organic stuff. So with that in mind, animal farming gives people financial incentive to promote biodiversity on their land, the healthier the fix of veg, the healthier the sheep, goat, cow ect... This land, that people can make a living on, is also the home to a constellation of insects, and thus birds, and mammals.

Carbon is only a part of the equation.

I never said that carbon was the only part, and didn't mention it specifically at all. It has been pointed to as one of the larger sources of greenhouse gas emissions, which is something that we need to start taking a look at (as a whole, not just with cows).


Biodiversity is a whole other aspect, and I can see parts of your argument. However, biodiversity arises in a whole lot of different ways and is in no way reliant on having grazing land. I don't buy that having vast swathes of grazing land and huge amounts of cows is necessary for this.


Honestly though, I am kind of with Corsi in that the animal welfare is probably the biggest driver for me being totally on board.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And? Do you think existing just to live in captivity is better than not existing at all?

If there's zero difference in taste, texture, cost, nutrition, I can't understand why people would be against it. I'm a pretty big meat-eater and hardly a card-carrying PETA member, but it's pretty cruel to keep murdering animals when other options are available.

I was just curious what he meant by that part of his comment. If all things being equal or cheaper then I would be on board. If they aren't equal then I probably wouldn't be - much like others here.

[Table 5]

Bill Gates is welcome to switch his family over to synthetic beef. Something tells me he just means this for us plebes though.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

I've seen ads for 50/50 beef/plant protein but haven't seen it in stores.

meat-alternatives seem to exist as a way to make more money from people wanting to appear all sustainable and ethical.

I've yet to see beyond beef at lower prices than real beef.

[GreenLantern]

I was going to say they are going to have to get the price more on level with beef if they want people to switch over. If this was a legit health thing, as many health experts have argued over the years, then subsidize it and cut the prices to the point its a legit option for even the poorest of people.

If it's just another way for rich people to get richer, throw your trendy words on it and keep the price jacked up.

All of this aside, it obviously would devastate the beef industry.. I'm not on either side of the argument, I've heard both and both are compelling. I still eat beef on the regular, hamburgers are my favourite pleasure food.

But I am open to other options, if its the right fit.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Cain

I never said that carbon was the only part, and didn't mention it specifically at all. It has been pointed to as one of the larger sources of greenhouse gas emissions, which is something that we need to start taking a look at (as a whole, not just with cows).


Biodiversity is a whole other aspect, and I can see parts of your argument. However, biodiversity arises in a whole lot of different ways and is in no way reliant on having grazing land. I don't buy that having vast swathes of grazing land and huge amounts of cows is necessary for this.


Honestly though, I am kind of with Corsi in that the animal welfare is probably the biggest driver for me being totally on board.

Again, i'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like to reinforce this point. It is in no way reliant you're right, but it incentivizes it. Natural grass land in Alberta is under a lot of pressure, between primary industry, crop farming, and homesteads ( acreages or just expansion of towns and cities), there is less and less of it than ever. This is especially true, because unbroken grass land is something that cant be easily replaced, once it is tilled, developed ect... it is very difficult if not impossible to restore the biodiversity that is present ( for grass land, park land is different).

That is to say, there are a million reasons to sell or develop your grasslands, and very few ways to make any money from it. Lets not pretend that most farmers are in any financial position to keep a large section of their land aside for no reason other than morality. Land taxes need to get paid, let alone financial obligations. Animal farming is a way to make money while protecting biodiversity.

The point is that only only 1.25 percent of Alberta’s Grasslands Natural Region is protected under parks and other legislated protected areas. The rest is up to private interest, and without a viable incentive to protect that biodiversity the amount of unbroken land would diminish year over year.

Does that mean that factory farming is good? of course not, but it is bad habit to lump in every farmer and their livelyhood with large cooperate entities.

[CroFlames]

I'm torn on the subject as I try doing the right things.

I like to eat natural, minimally processed foods when I can. I love vegetarian meals as much as meats.

I was never a fan of Beyond Meat because I mentally couldn't get over how processed and "unnatural" it was compared to a classic black bean patty for instance.

Lab grown meat just doesn't seem natural to me. It may take me a long time to get over that mental obstacle.

[DownhillGoat]

Not until actual meat is inevitably legislated out of existence.

However I'll also preface that with saying I buy my beef from a ranch that raises about 50 head a year, doesn't see a commercial feedlot or slaughterhouse, and the cattle in all seriousness have a better life than I do.

[Titan2]

It is funny how we are squeamish about lab-grown meat but humans will eat cheez whiz by the gallon, Coke is not going away and all the ####e in the candy aisle or the other processed foods. Also, how is lab-grown "meat" any different than a tomato or broccoli? Those are grown products. If it is good and I like it and can afford it, I will eat it.

[octothorp]

Something that will need to happen in the coming years is more thorough integration of the agricultural industry into the carbon taxation scheme. Currently, a lot of the meat sector emissions (particularly methane emissions) are not penalized under the carbon tax. But on the other hand, the role in preserving grazing land mentioned in this thread is also is not factored in. If these were both factored in, then we'd have a model where, over time as taxes increase, grass-fed beef remains competitive although increasingly a luxury product, and feed-lot beef gradually loses out to lab meat and other alternatives. A model being discussed in some countries is to implement this sort of tax, with the revenue going to food subsidies for low-income earners. If there's some way to direct those subsidies to be spent primarily on domestically-produced food, that's an added win.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Titan2

It is funny how we are squeamish about lab-grown meat but humans will eat cheez whiz by the gallon, Coke is not going away and all the ####e in the candy aisle or the other processed foods. Also, how is lab-grown "meat" any different than a tomato or broccoli? Those are grown products. If it is good and I like it and can afford it, I will eat it.

Obviously only speaking for myself, but outside my instant ramen addiction, I don't eat a lot processed foods. Pre-shredded cheese bugs me, let alone cheese whiz.

And to the latter? Tomato or broccoli grow naturally, and any method we use to mass produce them is still more or less the same. Last time I checked you don't see too many cows out in the wild growing synthetically, and we're not making tomato slices out of the innards of a former tomato.

[Mass_nerder]

I don't know if I'd want a synthetic steak, but (provided it was proved to be safe) I wouldn't bat an eye at eating synthetic ground beef.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Titan2

It is funny how we are squeamish about lab-grown meat but humans will eat cheez whiz by the gallon, Coke is not going away and all the ####e in the candy aisle or the other processed foods. Also, how is lab-grown "meat" any different than a tomato or broccoli? Those are grown products. If it is good and I like it and can afford it, I will eat it.

Well, a couple of things.

First, lab-grown meat isn't really lab grown meat. It is to some extent right now, because it's not being produced for consumers and they're trying to get it right. It's still in R&D, effectively. But if it gets to a point where it's being widely sold commercially in the meat aisle at safeway it'll be more like "giant vat grown meat". So it is a bit different from growing tomatoes in a field and picking them and shipping them to Safeway.

Second, meat produced that way is still the same, in terms of what it's made of, as meat produced in a cow. So "synthetic" is really not the correct term - "cultured" is probably more accurate. They're beef cells, the same as a cow's beef cells. It's just that the biological process that grows those cells when you have a calf that ultimately gets bigger by eating grass and becomes a cow is happening without any sentient creature involved. It's still cell growth and the cells themselves aren't a substitute for the real thing, they're not a near-approximation of the real thing, they are the real thing. Arguably more so, since they're not being fed hormones or other things to create more yield or change the texture, etc. So from that perspective, it's not comparable to cheez whiz, which contains plenty of stuff that isn't "real cheese" and lots of ingredients you can't pronounce. What Memphis Meats and others are doing has none of that. It's just beef that you can eat without any requirement that an animal live and die for you to do so.

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

I don't know if I'd want a synthetic steak, but (provided it was proved to be safe) I wouldn't bat an eye at eating synthetic ground beef.

Can you explain why? If it's just that you don't think it's likely that they'll be able to make the steak taste right, that makes sense, I'm skeptical about that as well. But if they do, and I can't tell the difference between a rib eye from a dead cow and a rib eye that was grown from other cells, I don't see why I wouldn't prefer to eat the latter.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Well, a couple of things.

First, lab-grown meat isn't really lab grown meat. It is to some extent right now, because it's not being produced for consumers and they're trying to get it right. It's still in R&D, effectively. But if it gets to a point where it's being widely sold commercially in the meat aisle at safeway it'll be more like "giant vat grown meat". So it is a bit different from growing tomatoes in a field and picking them and shipping them to Safeway.

Second, meat produced that way is still the same, in terms of what it's made of, as meat produced in a cow. So "synthetic" is really not the correct term - "cultured" is probably more accurate. They're beef cells, the same as a cow's beef cells. It's just that the biological process that grows those cells when you have a calf that ultimately gets bigger by eating grass and becomes a cow is happening without any sentient creature involved. It's still cell growth and the cells themselves aren't a substitute for the real thing, they're not a near-approximation of the real thing, they are the real thing. Arguably more so, since they're not being fed hormones or other things to create more yield or change the texture, etc. So from that perspective, it's not comparable to cheez whiz, which contains plenty of stuff that isn't "real cheese" and lots of ingredients you can't pronounce. What Memphis Meats and others are doing has none of that. It's just beef that you can eat without any requirement that an animal live and die for you to do so.

Can you explain why? If it's just that you don't think it's likely that they'll be able to make the steak taste right, that makes sense, I'm skeptical about that as well. But if they do, and I can't tell the difference between a rib eye from a dead cow and a rib eye that was grown from other cells, I don't see why I wouldn't prefer to eat the latter.

Yep, I'm skeptical about taste. Ground beef you're typically spicing/cooking with other stuff, but steak is all about the flavor of the beef.
If they could make it look/taste right, then I wouldn't have a problem.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Well, a couple of things.

First, lab-grown meat isn't really lab grown meat. It is to some extent right now, because it's not being produced for consumers and they're trying to get it right. It's still in R&D, effectively. But if it gets to a point where it's being widely sold commercially in the meat aisle at safeway it'll be more like "giant vat grown meat". So it is a bit different from growing tomatoes in a field and picking them and shipping them to Safeway.

Second, meat produced that way is still the same, in terms of what it's made of, as meat produced in a cow. So "synthetic" is really not the correct term - "cultured" is probably more accurate. They're beef cells, the same as a cow's beef cells. It's just that the biological process that grows those cells when you have a calf that ultimately gets bigger by eating grass and becomes a cow is happening without any sentient creature involved. It's still cell growth and the cells themselves aren't a substitute for the real thing, they're not a near-approximation of the real thing, they are the real thing. Arguably more so, since they're not being fed hormones or other things to create more yield or change the texture, etc. So from that perspective, it's not comparable to cheez whiz, which contains plenty of stuff that isn't "real cheese" and lots of ingredients you can't pronounce. What Memphis Meats and others are doing has none of that. It's just beef that you can eat without any requirement that an animal live and die for you to do so.

Can you explain why? If it's just that you don't think it's likely that they'll be able to make the steak taste right, that makes sense, I'm skeptical about that as well. But if they do, and I can't tell the difference between a rib eye from a dead cow and a rib eye that was grown from other cells, I don't see why I wouldn't prefer to eat the latter.

I'm on the side of lab-meat, but I think a big hinderance will be this. You won't be getting "cuts" like you did without the animal. Rib Eye, TBone, NY Strip, etc... are all based on and named for where they are found on the animal and the condition they are in due to the bone structure and fat content, which won't exist here.

It's likely it's basically all "roast" like lumps of meet that get sliced into steaks. But really, the consistency should be pretty much selectable and everything should be filet-style tender.