Practice notes Jan 6

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Backlund will age well, and there will have to be other players blowing the doors wide open for the Flames to even think about exposing him.


Centres are extremely valuable commodities in the NHL. When you factor in Backlund's defensive game, plus how he still contributes on the scoresheet year in, year out with his utilization, I just think we are undervaluing him.


I like Lindholm. However, when Ward moved Linholm to centre in an attempt to fill-in Backlund's role, Lindholm didn't exactly succeed. I have always argued that having Backlund on the team allows for the other lines to get a lot more opportunities offensively as well.



I also think that Backlund is a very strong skater. I think he will continue aging well and will continue being a positive contributor at his cap hit.


I am fine running:
Monahan
Lindholm
Backlund
as the centre depth, and I am fine with running:
Monahan
Backlund
Bennett


Gaudreau - Monahan - Leivo/Simon/whomever - offensive first line

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane - decent 2-way line (more offensive)

Bennett - Backlund - Dube - strong 2-way line (more defensive)

Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom/whomever (should be capable of playing strong defence)


I like the look of that lineup.


Gaudreau - Monahan - Leivo/Simon/whomever - Offence

Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm - elite defensively and very good offensively

Mangiapane - Bennett - Dube - question mark, but should be a fast line - more offensive and will probably need some sheltering at least to start

Lucic - Ryan - whomever - capable 4th line


I think that the first lineup is probably a bit stronger and more versatile at the moment, but it really depends on how a Mangiapane - Bennett - Dube line look. If that is a real improvement on the Lucic - Bennett - Dube line while also being competent defensively, then that might be the better option.



Either way, the Flames have some depth this season - more than last season, and I was of the opinion that losing both Frolik and Jankowski (though relatively unpopular) was a blow to this team's depth and versatility. I think this team is better on forwards now than last season.


Defence pairings are going to be interesting to follow. The most sense from a 'win now' perspective is

Giordano - Tanev
Hanifin - Andersson
Valimaki - Nesterov/Kylington


That's kind of a weak bottom pairing considering NHL experience, but Valimaki is coming in looking really poised and ready for the NHL (and has SOME NHL reps under his belt), while Kylington I thought was ok for most of last season outside of his 2 horrendous games in a row. Nesterov seems likely to take that spot given his professional history, but who knows.


Giordano - Valimaki
Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington/Nesterov - Tanev


Love Valimaki, and I think playing next to Giordano will really help him develop, but that is still throwing him to the wolves expecting him to play on the top line right off the bat. Maybe he ends up getting there at some point this season, but I wouldn't throw him up there to start.


Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Valimaki
Kylington/Nesterov - Tanev


This is probably the 2nd best option IMO. More balanced bottom pairing, and doesn't throw Valimaki right to the wolves just yet. I would rather start Valimaki on the bottom pairing and let him work his way up.



I like the Depth that the Flames have right now. I would still much rather have Brodie over Tanev, but when looking at last season's roster, having Tanev + Valimaki > Brodie + Hamonic. I do think Hamonic was sort of disruptive on the backend defensively, and was too slow to transition. I am expecting Tanev to be better defensively, but still be a bit slow on the transition (hoping to be surprised). Hopefully each defence pairing can work well together. If so, then this will be an upgrade over last season's pairings (at least with Hamonic in the lineup).


My lineup of choice right now is:


Gaudreau - Monahan - Leivo (or someone fast who can get in on the forecheck and recover pucks, Leivo is a RHS which is just a bonus)
Tkachuck - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Bennett - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom/Simon


Hopefully some chemistry starts developing with any changed lines. Flames really need to get out of the gate ready.

[sureLoss]

Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg
#Flames making a few changes in group two, as well:

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Simon
Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo
Zavgorodniy-Froese-Nordstrom
Rinaldo-Tuulola-Robinson

Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Nesterov
Poolman-Yelesin

Rittich
Domingue

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Especially the NTC part of his contract, no?

That's a limited NTC, not a NMC. He can be exposed, and based on his age and cap hit, probably should be. Even if he is selected, in a flat cap market, a comparable UFA will likely be available at a lower cap hit after the expansion draft. That's better than losing a young asset with a fair amount of team control remaining.

This is nothing against Backlund. I love him as a player. He's a player the Flames actually drafted and developed, and he bleeds red. But the final years of his contract will be an overpayment in the current market where similar players are signing for bargain basement prices due to every team being up against the flat cap, which won't be going up any time soon.

[Ragnar]

I think the lines will be in a blender all year. With only 6 opponents Ward will probably tailor the line-up for each specific team we play. After playing Ottawa or Montreal or whoever 3-4 times we'll get a good idea of what works and what doesn't against each team.

For funsies though:

Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Mangiapane - Ryan - Leivo
Lucic - Dube - Simon

I think Dube has the tools to be an effective center in the NHL after a wee bit more experience, eventually supplanting Ryan and Backlund. Braydon Point lite.

[Enoch Root]

If the blender stopped there, I would be pretty happy with it (though of course it won't):

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Simon
Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo
Mangiapane-Backlund-Ryan
Lucic-Bennett-Dube
Nordstrom/whoever

Giordano-Tanev
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Nesterov
Mackey-Kylington
Petrovic

Markstrom
Rittich

deepest team in a long time

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I think the lines will be in a blender all year. With only 6 opponents Ward will probably tailor the line-up for each specific team we play. After playing Ottawa or Montreal or whoever 3-4 times we'll get a good idea of what works and what doesn't against each team.

For funsies though:

Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Mangiapane - Ryan - Leivo
Lucic - Dube - Simon

I think Dube has the tools to be an effective center in the NHL after a wee bit more experience, eventually supplanting Ryan and Backlund. Braydon Point lite.

That is a great point, and one we can very much expect.

Two significant factors at play:
1) only 6 opponents
2) a taxi squad of extra players

So the sensible strategy for this season is to build 6 team-specific lineups (injuries will of course be a major factor as well).

[EVERLAST]

Tuulola is in camp? Wow. I hope he progresses some how some way.

Pretty exciting having all these bodies in Camp seeing who works out thru competition and meritocracy as it should be .

What i really like this year is our goalies and how they'll push each other hopefully. Hopefully Rittich learns more as it sounds as if he was a sore spot in the bubble after the pause.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I understand that some people want Lindholm back at RW, but this is illogical, my friend. If that happens, who is the second NHL center in the second group? Tell me who the center is in this group of players: Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Simon, Leivo and Nordstrom.

The second group is not a viable NHL team. The Flames need to get the NHL team together and get ready for the regular season. 7 more training camp days and a travel day.

Keeping the AHL guys in the mix makes no sense. The Flames should have a 26 man go to war group focused on getting out of the gate as best as possible.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The second group is not a viable NHL team. The Flames need to get the NHL team together and get ready for the regular season. 7 more training camp days and a travel day.

Keeping the AHL guys in the mix makes no sense. The Flames should have a 26 man go to war group focused on getting out of the gate as best as possible.

Is that your opinion from your extensive years of coaching hockey players at the professional level?

[ComixZone]

I love the focus on building 4 lines that you can roll during 5v5 play. I've wanted them to take this approach for years, but I suppose having Jankowski/Neal/Rinaldo/Brouwer as every day players has always made it impossible.

Bringing in (hopefully) good utility players that can be plugged in the line-up anywhere could be a huge step forward for this team. Leivo and Simon are both looking to establish themselves as more than they have been before, and both already boast solid 2-way games. This is a huge step forward compared to paying $4.5M to Brouwer or $5.75M to Neal - veterans who "earned" their big pay day but had been left in the dust by the game.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Leivo
Gaudreau - Monahan - Simon
Mangiapane - Backlund - Bennett
Lucic - Ryan - Dube

or

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Simon
Gaudreau - Monahan - Leivo
Mangiapane - Backlund - Ryan
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

Both look good to me. Roll them all night and push the pace. I'm still holding out hope that we see Tkachuk - Bennett - Lindholm at some point, but as is I like the approach from a line-up perspective.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If the blender stopped there, I would be pretty happy with it (though of course it won't):

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Simon
Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo
Mangiapane-Backlund-Ryan
Lucic-Bennett-Dube
Nordstrom/whoever

Giordano-Tanev
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Nesterov
Mackey-Kylington
Petrovic

Markstrom
Rittich

deepest team in a long time

Not a fan of Simon on that top line. Rather Dube or Bennett there myself.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Agreed with exception to the "big" statement. Backlund's contract and age makes him less likely to get selected, than say a young player with lots left to prove.

If left unprotected, Backlund would likely be the best available forward. He is not overpaid, and is under contract for three years after expansion. If he is available then he is getting selected, and that would suck only unless one of the young players makes a major breakthrough.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Not a fan of Simon on that top line. Rather Dube or Bennett there myself.

Wait a day or two then.

[sureLoss]

Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg
now
#Flames head coach Geoff Ward says he hasn’t decided how to integrate WJC participants Jakob Pelletier, Connor Zary, and Dustin Wolf into camp.

Says they won’t be a part of tomorrow’s intra-squad game, which means they wouldn’t be available until Saturday at the earliest.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Back to lines. I think Mangiapane-Backlund-Ryan is a fine line defensively with an offensive pop when you can match at home. On the road? This line gets creamed.

When you say "fine" line defensively, do you mean satisfactory or average, but not great or maybe not even good?
Just curious in regard to the "creamed" portion.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

When you say "fine" line defensively, do you mean satisfactory or average, but not great or maybe not even good?
Just curious in regard to the "creamed" portion.

Fine, meaning I would be comfortable with them on the ice in a shutdown role.

Creamed, as in opposing coaches could put larger lines out against them, control matchups so they wouldn't have the opportunity to stifle offense.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If the blender stopped there, I would be pretty happy with it (though of course it won't):

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Simon
Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo
Mangiapane-Backlund-Ryan
Lucic-Bennett-Dube
Nordstrom/whoever

Giordano-Tanev
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Nesterov
Mackey-Kylington
Petrovic

Markstrom
Rittich

deepest team in a long time

Nice line up, I like the idea of keeping the Bennett playoff line together, and stacking that third line with middle six (thats closer to second line) skill with Ryan on the right side.

It hasn't been talked about much, but I'm really really excited to see Nesterov-Valimaki in action.

So many storylines and players/combinations to watch for on opening night.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Fine, meaning I would be comfortable with them on the ice in a shutdown role.

Creamed, as in opposing coaches could put larger lines out against them, control matchups so they wouldn't have the opportunity to stifle offense.

Well, that would be quite the change for a team that always seems to do well on the road, only to follow it up by stinking it up during the home games. Also, that does not at all strike me as a line that would have trouble with a tough match-up.

When has a line centered by Backlund ever had a difficult time with tough match-ups? I don't remember so I am actually curious. Ryan has always seemed defensively responsible and Mangiapane won't quit chasing the puck.

I think they could be a really good line...even with the odds stacked against them. I'm not sure it would be my first choice for a line, but I also think they would be one of the lines that fans wouldn't need to worry about during away games.

[Monahammer]

Simon = Pelletier and I like these lines.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If left unprotected, Backlund would likely be the best available forward. He is not overpaid, and is under contract for three years after expansion. If he is available then he is getting selected, and that would suck only unless one of the young players makes a major breakthrough.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Text, I really do mean this, it has been a lot of fun debating this with you this off season.

I think i've said my piece, so I'll save the rest for next off season.

I'm glad we can debate some less hypothetic stuff in the next few weeks.

Cheers