Liberals PROMISE to hand out 9 billion for your vote!!!

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I wonder how much I can sue for for having my elementary teachers humiliate and abuse me in front of the class...not to mention getting the strap by the Principal!
FOUR BILLION dollars!!!

No ****! My grade one teacher used to pull my earlobe & haul me around the classroom to warn other kids that misbehavour was unacceptable. Where's my money?

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm not sure I follow. Which group is it that won't grow up and become conservative and help themselves?

Stereotyping liberal-minded people as either stunned youth or lazy adults doesn't work.

Wow... again, where did I ever say that? Stunned youth? Lazy adults? Please.. find where I posted that.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Over time, most of those that help themselves will have conservative tendancies.... the ones that don't will fall into all the different buckets as life evolves for them.

There is that cross section of society that either chooses to stay on the same rung of the ladder, or can't climb it. That is your NDP sect. .

Okay then maybe you can explain the above for me.

Most of the people that help themselves are conservatives, and those that don't will fall into different buckets. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if most people that help themselves are conservatives then most people that don't help themselves would be, umm, something else? If not conservatives, then what?

NDP types are stuck on a certain rung (which one I'm not sure) and because of their beliefs they won't get off it, or can't?

And you also said young people are "exposed, and need help". Help with what? The implication I got out of that was that they don't know what they are talking about because they are young. In other words, stunned.

Apparently I've misinterpreted. What did you mean?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

I too recall being quite liberal minded as a student many moons ago... then the reality of the real world hit. I became a full fledged, government hand in pocket always citizen when I entered the working world. Kind of wonder how many here are basing their opinions on their student illusions of what taxation is all about.

I see some truth to your point. As a student who doesn't have to pay many taxes, the tax effect on my wallet isn't a major factor in my political/voting stance. I assume with many older, working citizens, it ranks much higher and plays a stronger role in guiding their votes.
However, the arguement that I would make is that many people who were more liberal like yourself, change because of money and at the expense of their principals and values. Instead of being biased as a student, they become biased by their money.
IMO, too many people vote with their wallets first, instead of actually considering if they care about anything else.
I'm not directing this at you in particular, but alot of those people who make the jump from liberal to conservative after school may just be sellouts who let money/financial concerns cloud their social concerns.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Reaper

You obviously have no clue about what went on in the Residential School program. It was a government sponsored program that took small native children from their families, stripped them of their cultural identities and tried to get them to be white. There was rampant physical, sexual and emotional abuse at these schools. They were physically disciplined for speaking their own language! Most children didn't even speak english when they arrived at the residential school! The people who were forced into Residential Schools deserve compensation from the government because it was a government program. Next you will probably tell us that people interned in camps by the Canadian government during World War II are "feeding at the trough, demanding unearned respect and wanting you to baby them."

You know what--I really don't give a crap what happened generations and generations ago. I don't give hoot what happened to the Japanese Canadians or whatever. You want an apology then go get it from those who actually did it. NOT just the usual looking for a handout which is ALL it amounts to. You deserve compensation my ass. Neverending begging for money sucks and TOTALLY removes any high ground you might have.

A act of contrition from those who did the deed--Fine and they should and if they are still alive then go after them for compensation. Anything else is just a sick money grab by a bunch of leeches who deserve no respect and have certainly no respect for themselves with their hands held out and the usual garbage pouring from their mouths "Gimme money, Gimee money, Gimmee money. All about money and nothing else--Same old story!!!!!

[Sylvanfan]

Actually, I find as I get older, I am moving more to the left. Economically I hate what the Liberals do, and coming from B.C. I loathe the NDP. But there are other social issues, where I find the conservatives don't agree with me. I used to care about politics, but I've lost all interest. There is no party that appeals to me, and any one in politics in this country is going to steal from me the tax payer and find a way to serve his/her own interests. I've long accepted that financially I'm going to get ripped off no matter who's in power. As far as I'm concerned another election right now is a waste of money, and I hope the Liberals win a majority just to show all these other party's that we all know the Liberals are thiefs but prefer them over the other garbage we're given to choose from. If you want to govern, find a way to appeal to me, rather than trying to show me why the other guy shouldn't appeal to me.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

You know what--I really don't give a crap what happened generations and generations ago.

Should all treaties and contracts and legal responsibility become null and void when they get old?

Apparently you agree that veteran's benefits should be cut because what they did was a long time ago so I'll offer another scenario.

People in my family (and me, eventually, hopefully) have mineral rights to Alberta farmland that was sold 3 generations ago. A long time ago, maybe 60 or 70 years ago. Do you think we shouldn't "give a crap" about that stuff, because it happened a long time ago, or should we give a crap, and expect the contract to be honored?

[WCE]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

You know what--I really don't give a crap what happened generations and generations ago. I don't give hoot what happened to the Japanese Canadians or whatever. You want an apology then go get it from those who actually did it. NOT just the usual looking for a handout which is ALL it amounts to. You deserve compensation my ass. Neverending begging for money sucks and TOTALLY removes any high ground you might have.

A act of contrition from those who did the deed--Fine and they should and if they are still alive then go after them for compensation. Anything else is just a sick money grab by a bunch of leeches who deserve no respect and have certainly no respect for themselves with their hands held out and the usual garbage pouring from their mouths "Gimme money, Gimee money, Gimmee money. All about money and nothing else--Same old story!!!!!

That' all fine and dandy that you don't think what happened in the past deserves to be reconciliated. It's true that it did happen a couple generations ago.

But guess what? The effects of what happened (any yes, what happened was sponsored by the government and the church, as a citizen we are accountable for the former) are still playing out today!

Rampant alcoholism and social problems can be traced from a government sponsored program of racism along with sexual and physical abuse.

So it doesn't matter that it happened 20-30-40-50-60 years ago.

What a disgusting attitude.

4X4...I don't know if I am reading your post properly. Are you equating what happened to the Natives at residential schools to getting your ear pulled? Or am I missing the sarcasm there.

I hope so. My apologies if I am.

[Clarkey]

Would the 4 billion to indian residential school victims really buy votes though?

I'm making an assumption here but I doubt the Indian voter turnout is very high.

Also, good or bad this 4 billion dollar payout probably won't gain that many votes for the Liberals among the average voter. I don't have my hand on the pulse of the nation but I'm assuming many people would resent this payment to what amounts to a very small segment of the population. Again I don't know if that is good or bad thing morally but I have a feeling it's the case.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by WCE

4X4...I don't know if I am reading your post properly. Are you equating what happened to the Natives at residential schools to getting your ear pulled? Or am I missing the sarcasm there.

I hope so. My apologies if I am.

Sarcasm. My teary eyed smilie was a ripoff of a whiner.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Apparently I've misinterpreted. What did you mean?

Rouge, I meant exactly what I wrote. There is no reason to try to interpret it. A rose by any other name...

Winsor,

However, the arguement that I would make is that many people who were more liberal like yourself, change because of money and at the expense of their principals and values.

Money (taxation) is but one aspect that may influence change in ones perspective, but I think my core principals and values have stayed pretty much the same over the years. They just have been supplimented with a pretty large dose of reality.

Take for example the death penalty. As a student growing up, I was completely against it. Now, four decades into this life, my views have changed. This has nothing to do with monetary issues. This is my new reality.

I have made a few pretty bad choices in life based on my principals and values. None of them were over money, yet all eventually had a monetary impact in one way or another.

Anyway folks, that is enough political discussion for me. Ultimately, political discussions are like fighting over where the steering wheel should be put in the car, yet no one notices the car has no tires.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by WCE

That' all fine and dandy that you don't think what happened in the past deserves to be reconciliated. It's true that it did happen a couple generations ago.

But guess what? The effects of what happened (any yes, what happened was sponsored by the government and the church, as a citizen we are accountable for the former) are still playing out today!

Rampant alcoholism and social problems can be traced from a government sponsored program of racism along with sexual and physical abuse.

So it doesn't matter that it happened 20-30-40-50-60 years ago.

What a disgusting attitude.

4X4...I don't know if I am reading your post properly. Are you equating what happened to the Natives at residential schools to getting your ear pulled? Or am I missing the sarcasm there.

I hope so. My apologies if I am.

The only thing that is digusting is the 100 years and counting of begging for money. It has zilch to do with correcting anything from the past==It's a out and out as per usual money grab. Plain and simple--nothing different than bloody beggars in the street. There are a heck of a lot more people who are suffering from having alcoholism in the family or who have been abused. Where do they line up for the handout?

The proper solution would be that those who offended were punished and that the government of the day and the Church of the day get hammered. Plus that by it being exposed and dealt with it makes sure it dosen't happen again. BUT that of course has ZIPPO to do with it. Gimee money over and over and over again is what it's about--Fart talk about disgusting alright. Nothing could more disgusting than a group of people who can't pul l themselves out of a situation like millions have in the past and who instead continue to whine about the past and ask over and over and over again for money!!!

[WCE]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

The only thing that is digusting is the 100 years and counting of begging for money. It has zilch to do with correcting anything from the past==It's a out and out as per usual money grab. Plain and simple--nothing different than bloody beggars in the street. There are a heck of a lot more people who are suffering from having alcoholism in the family or who have been abused. Where do they line up for the handout?

The proper solution would be that those who offended were punished and that the government of the day and the Church of the day get hammered. Plus that by it being exposed and dealt with it makes sure it dosen't happen again. BUT that of course has ZIPPO to do with it. Gimee money over and over and over again is what it's about--Fart talk about disgusting alright. Nothing could more disgusting than a group of people who can't pul l themselves out of a situation like millions have in the past and who instead continue to whine about the past and ask over and over and over again for money!!!

Sorry, you will have to explain this to me.

Which part is the money grab? Honouring the contracts that we signed, that are in context quite one-sided and exploitative of the Native population?

Or is it being compensated for the affects felt today from a government sponsored program of residential schools?

We can't go back into time, but the problems created from that past situation are still relevant right now. As the government of a 1st world country who operates under the ideology of "multiculturalism", I would think that its up to those of us who belong in the present tense to try and fix the situation.

I don't want to live in a country who ignores their mistreatment of minorities. The Native population has some looking in the mirror to do, no doubt about that. But, the government of Canada had a helping hand (ominously) in what has happened.

Again, I don't like just throwing money at a problem, but certainly more money could be put toward things like Therapy, After school centres, parenting clinics and other things of that nature that could help break the vicious cycle we have witnessed. But the victims also deserved to be compensated.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

The only thing that is digusting is the 100 years and counting of begging for money. It has zilch to do with correcting anything from the past==It's a out and out as per usual money grab. Plain and simple--nothing different than bloody beggars in the street. There are a heck of a lot more people who are suffering from having alcoholism in the family or who have been abused. Where do they line up for the handout?

The proper solution would be that those who offended were punished and that the government of the day and the Church of the day get hammered. Plus that by it being exposed and dealt with it makes sure it dosen't happen again. BUT that of course has ZIPPO to do with it. Gimee money over and over and over again is what it's about--Fart talk about disgusting alright. Nothing could more disgusting than a group of people who can't pul l themselves out of a situation like millions have in the past and who instead continue to whine about the past and ask over and over and over again for money!!!

So, I assume by these principles that Jews looking for their parents/grandparents money that was stolen by the Nazis/Swiss are 'bloody leeches' as well then, seeing as the original offenders were punished/are dead.

Though, that smacks of terrible injustice and inhumanity to me, and a total lack of respect for the past.

Nothing could more disgusting than a group of people who can't pul l themselves out of a situation like millions have in the past and who instead continue to whine about the past

Interesting. I find nothing more disgusting than off-the-cuff bigotry and flat out, purposeful (even reveling) insensitivity towards fellow human-beings. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Vote buying should be illegal. Period. I don't care what party does it, or whether I support them or not. It is vote buying. With our money.

So you'll be sending your $400 dollar cheque back to Klein then?

Another thought is that I find there are a lot of students here. I too recall being quite liberal minded as a student many moons ago... then the reality of the real world hit. I became a full fledged, government hand in pocket always citizen when I entered the working world. Kind of wonder how many here are basing their opinions on their student illusions of what taxation is all about.

Spare me the bullshinguard oh wisened one. Maybe you're just greedy and the people you criticize aren't?

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

You know what--I really don't give a crap what happened generations and generations ago. I don't give hoot what happened to the Japanese Canadians or whatever. You want an apology then go get it from those who actually did it.

You don't care about people being abused, stripped of their cultural identities or being interned (imprisoned) in their own country for nothing other than their ethnic origins? You are a pathetic excuse for a human being.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

The only thing that is digusting is the 100 years and counting of begging for money. It has zilch to do with correcting anything from the past==It's a out and out as per usual money grab. Plain and simple--nothing different than bloody beggars in the street. There are a heck of a lot more people who are suffering from having alcoholism in the family or who have been abused. Where do they line up for the handout?

Originally Posted by Hakan

I'd only ignore someone if they post racist or bigotted hate, which isn't a problem on this board.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=17955&

Well I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong. It is a problem on this board. Ignore!