[Trade] Habs acquire Jake Allen + 2022 7th from the Blues for a 2020 3rd + 7th

[Enoch Root]

They could probably ink Talbot for $3- $3.5M and not give up a 3rd. Others for even less.

And they already have Price, so we're talking 30 games or less. In that scenario, what is the difference between Allen and any of the other goalies listed in this thread? Absolutely nothing, IMO.

And, they will have to re-solve this problem again next year, as he has just one year left.

Unjustifiable trade, IMO. (if they are planning to use him as a backup)

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It doesn't, that's just "grass is greener" at it's peak.

Kotkaniemi and Suzuki look extremely promising going forward. And they still haven't traded Domi or Danault. I would not be surprised if Suzuki outscored Monahan next season

[Doctorfever]

Heard on radio they were talking about teams might all be running two goalies with a compressed schedule next season. Montreal maybe trying to get out in front and have their two set.

Flames might be looking at another tandem. Maybe the same goalies as this past season...

[Flash Walken]

this is a very good trade for Montreal.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

this is a very good trade for Montreal.

I would say the opposite. That cap space could be huge for the Blues. And that’s a ton of money for goaltending in MTL.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Heard on radio they were talking about teams might all be running two goalies with a compressed schedule next season. Montreal maybe trying to get out in front and have their two set.

Flames might be looking at another tandem. Maybe the same goalies as this past season...

If NHL general managers go out and try to trade significant assets to add another good goaltender to their team, just for one season of a slightly compressed schedule, this league is truly lost.

There are only 31 default starting jobs in the league. If everyone goes out and tries to find another starting goaltender, the pool of good goalies in the league doesn't change.

Am I taking crazy pills?

[dino7c]

nobody knows what the schedule is for next season...if there is one

the border won't be open and you can't have fans in the building...also, players aren't going back into a bubble for six months. How is this gonna happen?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I think its easier to play goal with the Blues in front of you than those other teams

Save percentage above expected is supposed to account for that, as it adjusts for shot quality.

However issue with all goalies (even the top ones) is that both adjusted save percentage and normal save percentage tend to fluctuate wildly year to year.

Look at the adjusted save percentage and normal save percentage for some of the names listed in this thread or potentially available this offseason:

Allen:
18/19: -0.414% / .905
19/20: 0.379% / .927

Price:
18/19: 0.098% / .918
19/20: -0.301% / .909

Khudobin:
18/19: 0.249% / .930
19/20: 0.509% / .923

Andersen:
18/19: 0.333% / .917
19/20: -0.498% / .909

Murray:
18/19: 0.05% / .919
19/20: -1.084% / .899

Fleury:
18/19: 0.189% / .913
19/20: -0.252% / .905

Lehner:
18/19: 0.632% / .930
19/20: 0.111% / .918

Markstrom:
18/19: -0.047% / .912
19/20: 0.041% / .918

Talbot:
18/19: -1.087% / .893
19/20: -0.379% / .919

Rittich:
18/19: 0.251% / .911
19/20: -0.313% / .907

So for pretty much all these goalies it's a pretty big variation year to year.

Even the top goalies in the league see variation year to year.

Vasilevskiy:
18/19: 0.5357 / .925
19/20: 0.138% / .917

Hellebuyck:
18/19: -0.185% / .913
19/20: 0.774% / .922

Rask:
18/19: -0.093% / .912
19/20: 0.823% / .929

Honestly goalie performance season to season varies so widely that it's tough to recommend spending huge assets to acquire a goalie. If the Flames can get a guy like Lehner for a decent price in UFA then sure, but otherwise it's tough to recommend using big trade assets or cap spending to go after a goalie.

To the point in the initial note though your best bet to improve your goaltending is to improve your defensive play in front of him, because really that's the bigger factor than just the individual goaltender performance in reducing goals against for your team.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by dino7c

nobody knows what the schedule is for next season...if there is one

the border won't be open and you can't have fans in the building...also, players aren't going back into a bubble for six months. How is this gonna happen?

Ya, I don’t know. Just speculation on radio. But I guess if there does end up being a compressed schedule, two goalies might be a good option.

Of course there are only so many good goalies, so having two of them is a luxury.

[Flash Walken]

Why spend a 3rd on a full season of Allen when you can spend a 3rd on a few weeks of Gustafson, right?

Most teams in the league arent running a goalie for 65-70 games a season anymore, compressed schedule or not.

Rask played ~45, vasilevski ~50, bishop ~45...

Price and hellebyuck were the only goalies in the league that were going to get to 65 games and now basically for sure Price won't next season.

Good trade.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why spend a 3rd on a full season of Allen when you can spend a 3rd on a few weeks of Gustafson, right?

Most teams in the league arent running a goalie for 65-70 games a season anymore, compressed schedule or not.

Rask played ~45, vasilevski ~50, bishop ~45...

Price and hellebyuck were the only goalies in the league that were going to get to 65 games and now basically for sure Price won't next season.

Good trade.

There are 18 pending UFA goalies who played significant games this year. Some of them will not be re-signed by their teams. The question then is why Allen and not one of them?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They could probably ink Talbot for $3- $3.5M and not give up a 3rd. Others for even less.

And they already have Price, so we're talking 30 games or less. In that scenario, what is the difference between Allen and any of the other goalies listed in this thread? Absolutely nothing, IMO.

And, they will have to re-solve this problem again next year, as he has just one year left.

Unjustifiable trade, IMO. (if they are planning to use him as a backup)

Maybe they have intel on Talbot re-signing here. I know management likes him.

[Ashasx]

I don't even think this is bad value wise for Montreal. I just don't think teams can win with $15 million of cap space being taken by goaltenders.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why spend a 3rd on a full season of Allen when you can spend a 3rd on a few weeks of Gustafson, right?

Most teams in the league arent running a goalie for 65-70 games a season anymore, compressed schedule or not.

Rask played ~45, vasilevski ~50, bishop ~45...

Price and hellebyuck were the only goalies in the league that were going to get to 65 games and now basically for sure Price won't next season.

Good trade.

I think there are a couple of things here:

1) Could you have signed a guy this offseason that likely does the exact same thing Allen does without giving up a third? Most likely, especially if you throw $4M at them.

2) Is Allen actually good? Also unclear. This is a guy that was terrible for St.Louis in both 17-18, and 18-19, to the point where he was spoken of as a potential buyout candidate after the cup win. So Montreal is clearly buying high here after a bounceback season last year.

Honestly it's not a terrible trade, but really with the way the goaltending market is and with Allen's contract I'm surprised Montreal had to give up a third.

[Flash Walken]

The term is the other factor.

1 year.

You go to the goalie market, are you going to walk away with the goalie you want offering only a single year of term.

Highly unlikely.

They need a specific guy to do a specific job for a specific length of time.

Allen doesn't have to be 'good', he just has to be better than what they already had, which he is.

[Enoch Root]

In a season where cap space has never been more valuable, spending $4.35M on a backup - and giving up a 3rd for the privilege - is a waste of assets.

Take on a contract like JVR, or Voracek, or a cap dump like Lucic or many others, and you could get a ton of assets in return - including a throw-in backup goalie perhaps.

[Roof-Daddy]

The 3rd they gave up wasn't even their own, it was the Caps 3rd.

Despite losing these two 2020 picks the Habs still have 12 picks left in the upcoming draft.

They also have 11 in the 2021 draft.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It doesn't, that's just "grass is greener" at it's peak.

Keep telling yourself that. Suzuki and Kotkaniemi are 20 and looked pretty terrific this playoff

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Are there not better ways to spend that cap space though?

With the COVID crunch, there have never been more teams in tighter spots than this year. A team with cap space to spare should be able to make out like bandits if they use it correctly.

Spending tat much of it on a backup is pretty poor management IMO.

Also, goalies are witches.

Tons of cap room. And next season's schedule will be compact, which means they can't lean on Price like they have. They need a backup who doesn't give the opposition a free two points if Price doesn't play.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If NHL general managers go out and try to trade significant assets to add another good goaltender to their team, just for one season of a slightly compressed schedule, this league is truly lost.

There are only 31 default starting jobs in the league. If everyone goes out and tries to find another starting goaltender, the pool of good goalies in the league doesn't change.

Am I taking crazy pills?

I think the point is that, in a normal year, you can ride your starter harder and get away with cheaping out on your backup because they are only playing ~20% of your games.

In a compressed schedule, if you are having to play your backup more like 30-35% of your games, they become more important to your overall success.

In the goaltending world, it's debatable, but I would say there are maybe 10-15 bonafide top starter types at the most. Then there are probably 25 with a reasonable claim to being starter-quality. Then there are a handful who are question marks and hugely streaky. Then there are the fringe NHLers. If your backup is playing a third of your games next year, you may want to get one that's more of a borderline starter than a fringe NHLer.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They could probably ink Talbot for $3- $3.5M and not give up a 3rd. Others for even less.

And they already have Price, so we're talking 30 games or less. In that scenario, what is the difference between Allen and any of the other goalies listed in this thread? Absolutely nothing, IMO.

And, they will have to re-solve this problem again next year, as he has just one year left.

Unjustifiable trade, IMO. (if they are planning to use him as a backup)

Price is the reason they need someone like Allan.

If you play Price 50 games a year, he can be rested enough to drag you through at least a couple rounds.

We should’ve learned that with Miikka, instead of playing him 70 games a year for five seasons in a row.