Where does Mark Giordano rank among all-time Flames?

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I imagine the problem with McCrimmon (and again, I never watched him play) was that he only played three seasons here.

This. Longevity has to be a major factor in these lists. A lot of fans never seen the older guys play. But likewise a lot of older guys over value short but memorable stints from guys they idolized in their youths.

[oldschoolcalgary]

depends on the criteria i guess.

Talent wise, he's in the top 10 imo...but in terms of embodying the franchise, i think that he's probably just behind Lanny, Iggy, Theo

i would not be shocked to see his jersey in the rafters one day

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I imagine the problem with McCrimmon (and again, I never watched him play) was that he only played three seasons here.

Yep. Great player but more Flyer than Flame. When coming up with these lists I always think of one team per player. I wouldn’t want one of our all time great players being on another’s team list. Maybe that’s not logical but that’s how I think of it. That’s tough with a player like McCrimmon who played with many different teams.

Also a little problematic with Lanny but his accomplishments here blow what he did in Toronto out of the water. SC champion, biggest goal in franchise history and in my opinion best season in franchise history. Plus the way he simply owned the town for a few years. And that he is from the area and settled here.

Guess I’m an old timer but he will always be Mr. Flame to me.

[Canada 02]

I think longevity and loyalty puts him higher on my list than some more talented players before him. I'd have him in the top 10, around 5-7

[PeteMoss]

Was looking up McInnis' stats and wow, was it a different era. The guy broke 100 points in 90-91 and didn't win the Norris. 3 d-men with over 90 points that year - Bourque with 94 (he won the Norris) and Coffey with 93.


But if Gio wins the Norris this year - he's got to be top 4 at minimum. He'd be the 3rd Flame to win a major award - McInnis with the Conn Smythe and Kipprusoff with the Vezina (and of course Iginla should be on this list with the Hart)

[Badgers Nose]

I doubt there will ever be another Flames player that wears 5.

[timbit]

Gio , IMO, is the best 2 way (overall) defenceman in Flames history.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I imagine the problem with McCrimmon (and again, I never watched him play) was that he only played three seasons here.

Yeah as I mentioned, he never had the longevity but he was a warrior and he put it all on the ice...especially during the run to the Stanley Cup. You didn't mess with the Sarge. I wish we had someone with his edge on the Flames right now...need someone like him in the playoffs.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by redforever

Yeah as I mentioned, he never had the longevity but he was a warrior and he put it all on the ice...especially during the run to the Stanley Cup. You didn't mess with the Sarge. I wish we had someone with his edge on the Flames right now...need someone like him in the playoffs.

The Flames have that in Giordano. He is the consummate warrior.

[Alpha_Q]

Am I the only one that remembers Nilsson coming back as an Oiler? He WAS my favorite Flame at the time, but to come back as an Oiler and win the cup? Hell, no. I rank him somewhere around Sasha Lakovic.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Was looking up McInnis' stats and wow, was it a different era. The guy broke 100 points in 90-91 and didn't win the Norris. 3 d-men with over 90 points that year - Bourque with 94 (he won the Norris) and Coffey with 93.


But if Gio wins the Norris this year - he's got to be top 4 at minimum. He'd be the 3rd Flame to win a major award - McInnis with the Conn Smythe and Kipprusoff with the Vezina (and of course Iginla should be on this list with the Hart)

Iginla won the Art Ross and twice won the Rocket Richard Trophy. Those are major awards.


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[codynw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Iginla won the Art Ross and twice won the Rocket Richard Trophy. Those are major awards.


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The number of eligible players that have won the Art Ross trophy that are not in the Hall of Fame is zero. So ya, pretty major award.

[powderjunkie]

I was just thinking about this today...I like to think about it in terms of an all-time starting line-up:

?????-??????-Iginla
Giordano-MacInnis
Kipper/Vernon

I'm very comfortable slotting Gio onto that top pair now. I think Kipper vs. Vernon is the ultimate toss-up; I go with Kipper, but wouldn't argue with anyone who says Vernon.

Where it gets interesting is the forward slots: Johnny vs. Gary Roberts

Johnny: 376 gp; 127G, 370P
Roberts: 585 gp; 257G, 505P

Gary has higher G/GP, but Johnny has higher P/GP (though I imagine Johnny would be quite a bit higher if corrected by year). Gary had 5 goals and 12 pts in the cup run; important player, but not even a top 6 forward? He broke out the next season with 39g, and then 53 two seasons later.

If I'm building a real team with other great players I might want Gary, but since he never really got close to being a top 10 player/hart trophy contender as Johnny is now, I'd probably lean to Johnny. If he plays well and the Flames win 2 playoff rounds, I think it cements it (Gary never won another playoff rd as a Flame).

Monahan is getting closer, but I don't think he's quite ready to supplant Nieuwendyk. A Conn Smythe this June might do it, though.


Doing this exercise for a lot of other teams, you would slot a center into a wing position (Crosby-Lemieux-Jagr); perhaps for Calgary it would be the other way:

Gaudreau-Iginla-Fleury

A total defensive disaster, but Iggy was good enough at draws, and it would be fun to watch a couple featherweights flying around.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by codynw

The number of eligible players that have won the Art Ross trophy that are not in the Hall of Fame is zero. So ya, pretty major award.

Agreed for the most part. Will Jamie Benn make it?

Yes, Jarome will be a HOF er

[timbit]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I was just thinking about this today...I like to think about it in terms of an all-time starting line-up:

?????-??????-Iginla
Giordano-MacInnis
Kipper/Vernon

I'm very comfortable slotting Gio onto that top pair now. I think Kipper vs. Vernon is the ultimate toss-up; I go with Kipper, but wouldn't argue with anyone who says Vernon.

Where it gets interesting is the forward slots: Johnny vs. Gary Roberts

Johnny: 376 gp; 127G, 370P
Roberts: 585 gp; 257G, 505P

Gary has higher G/GP, but Johnny has higher P/GP (though I imagine Johnny would be quite a bit higher if corrected by year). Gary had 5 goals and 12 pts in the cup run; important player, but not even a top 6 forward? He broke out the next season with 39g, and then 53 two seasons later.

If I'm building a real team with other great players I might want Gary, but since he never really got close to being a top 10 player/hart trophy contender as Johnny is now, I'd probably lean to Johnny. If he plays well and the Flames win 2 playoff rounds, I think it cements it (Gary never won another playoff rd as a Flame).

Monahan is getting closer, but I don't think he's quite ready to supplant Nieuwendyk. A Conn Smythe this June might do it, though.


Doing this exercise for a lot of other teams, you would slot a center into a wing position (Crosby-Lemieux-Jagr); perhaps for Calgary it would be the other way:

Gaudreau-Iginla-Fleury

A total defensive disaster, but Iggy was good enough at draws, and it would be fun to watch a couple featherweights flying around.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying except a different era , scoring wise.

[drewtastic]

Here's my take:

Gio has been a life-long (career) Flame. He was undrafted. He fought for a spot on the team. He went to Russia when D-Utter (yes, I brought back that term!) wouldn't guarantee his contract. And ultimately, Gio was proven right.

As a Captain, he's shown himself to be every part of what a leader should be, on and off the ice. At 35+, he's one of our top fitness players every year in camp. I can't think of a better person to have taken the torch from Iggy. He absolutely bleeds Flames Red. As far as I'm concerned, he has set the template for his successor.

So, where does he rank, overall? I mean, that's hard to pinpoint. At very least, Gio has established himself as one of the greatest Flames of all time, IMO.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by timbit

Agreed for the most part. Will Jamie Benn make it?

Yes, Jarome will be a HOF er

Art Ross winners that aren't in the HOF yet.


Connor McDingus
Patrick Kane
Jamie Benn
Sidney Crosby
Evgeni Malkin
Daniel Sedin
Henrik Sedin
Alex Ovechkin
Joe Thornton
Jarome Iginla
Jaromir Jagr



So yea, everyone on that list is probably going to be a Hall of Famer at the end of their career except for Jamie Benn, and maybe McDingus when he gets sick of hockey and retires at the age of 23.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by timbit

Agreed for the most part. Will Jamie Benn make it?

Yes, Jarome will be a HOF er

It isn't too hard to rationalize if he doesn't...Benn's 87pts in 82 gp is the lowest PPG total for the Art Ross Trophy winner since Elmer Lach (61p in 60g) in 1948 the first year it was called the 'Art Ross Award'

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I imagine the problem with McCrimmon (and again, I never watched him play) was that he only played three seasons here.

Sarge was the best shut down dman this club has ever had. Dominating goal differential, wherever he played.

[heep223]

If he captains this team to a cup with Norris-quality play, combined with his off ice work and demeanour, I’d put him at #1. Right now top 10.