Players that you think have played their final year with the Flames? (18-19 Edition)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If you want to adhere to a strict L-R with only Brodie as an exception rule, then that means Hamonic is the one who goes. And given I personally think Hamonic is better than Brodie, I dislike that.

And no, I am not creating an issue that isn't there. But you are merely delaying one.

I don't mind delaying this "issue" in the midst of 50 win seasons... YMMV

Because you are not only blocking an NHL ready kid, but now you're putting yourself in a position where you're going to risk losing fully one half of your top four to free agency without any of their replacements being given the time and chance to learn the role beforehand.

One of Brodie or Hamonic is almost certainly gone by the end of 2019-20. That's just reality. The question is: when and how can you get the most value for the team? Both in terms of the guys on the ice, and in terms of the assets we can get in return for the one who has to leave? I say Brodie, and I say this summer.

Assuming that's "reality" (which I am unconvinced, BTW) - is preemptive asset management more important than deep playoff runs?

IMO you can afford to let a guy walk in summer of 2020 after winning a Stanley Cup because you have kids ready to take his job.

You can't afford to miss the playoffs in 2020 because you thought a guy could match up the top lines of 30 other teams in the leagues, but it turns out that guy can't.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hamonic is going to get $5 million per season at minimum or he will be taking his services elsewhere.

The same Hamonic who requested a trade from Brooklyn to western Canada for family related reasons?

Seems to me the perfect candidate to take a team friendly discount.

As for Brodie, I disagree. Brodie is certainly worth 5.25M regardless of whether his partner is Giordano or not, as long as he plays the right. Valimaki, Hanifin, and Kylington are going to need a partner in the future themselves.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by TheRealPepman

Mike Smith
Michael Frolik
Dalton Prout
Curtis Lazar
TJ Brodie
Michael Stone

I would agree. I'm sure Treliving's mandate next year will be to bring in a legit goaltender, so you will probably see a deal to acquire a legit goalie at the expense of a depth player and a pick to stay under the salary cap. Should be a very interesting off-season.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hamonic is going to get $5 million per season at minimum or he will be taking his services elsewhere. He will be looking to make some money after playing on a discount on the current contract. The problem with giving Brodie a raise is that he's really not that good unless he's paired with Gio so handing him a long term deal at $5.25 when Gio is 35 years old is not a great idea.

I get the impression that Hamonic really wants to stay, and would likely take a discount to do so. He is very family and community oriented, and this is a good place for him to be.

As for Brodie, he's simply good on the right side. You could probably pair him with Hanifin and still have a good pairing. Not so much with Hamonic because he would have to switch sides.

In any case, minor raises for each would be far from a disaster, and with the salary cap going up, it's not unreasonable for each to expect to sign for a similar % of the cap as they did when they signed their previous contracts, or maybe a bit more due to UFA status.

[TheRealPepman]

He may not be a player, but maybe this has to be Sigalet's final year.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Hamonic will be a free-agent after next season, same as Brodie. Both are on value contracts. Why trade Brodie then? He has obvious chemistry with Gio.

My frog would have chemistry with Gio. He makes anyone look good.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

My frog would have chemistry with Gio. He makes anyone look good.

Don't be silly. Gio wasn't Norris caliber with Hamilton by his side.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

My frog would have chemistry with Gio. He makes anyone look good.

That's a complete load of BS .

The Bouwmeester-Giordano pair was outscored 41-49 in their time together. That's on a team that had Kipper in net and Iginla up front.

The Giordano - Wideman pair was outscored 31-28 in their time together. And that includes Wideman's career year where everything he threw on net turned into goals.

The Giordano - Engelland pair was outscored 18-13 in their time together.

Despite all this, in 2013-14 when our top forwards were guys like Matt Stajan, half a season of Cammalleri, Lee Stempniak, and Mikael Backlund, the Gio - Brodie pair outscored their opponents 37 - 30. That's before Gaudreau, before Monahan, before Tkachuk, before Lindholm. That's with a guys like Reto Berra and a 22 year old Joni Ortio in net for us. But according to your logic that was 100% Giordano. It's B.S.

So far this season the Giordano - Andersson pair has played together for a few games against non playoff teams with putrid top lines. How about we toss Andersson out there against the Avs' top line, or the Blues' top line of Schenn-Rielly-Tarassenko, before jumping to conclusions

[Mr.Coffee]

Erick Estrada has a great point for sure but I still think Brodie's being underrated on this site and especially this thread. To say he's the 4-5th best dman is ridiculous. When you're more offensive you're going to make some mistakes defensively but he's being told to play that way.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Erick Estrada has a great point for sure but I still think Brodie's being underrated on this site and especially this thread. To say he's the 4-5th best dman is ridiculous. When you're more offensive you're going to make some mistakes defensively but he's being told to play that way.

Defensively he's probably 4th, behind at least Gio, Hamonic and Hanifin (who I think has really picked up his defensive game). So does his offence make up that gap? Offensively he's behind Gio and ahead of Hamonic and probably Hanifin (at this point).

[wired]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don’t see Frolik or Stone being moved this summer. Those are the type of guys you look to add at the deadline and their return over the summer would be minimal.

I think Frolik will be moved, just for the agent schmozzle. Try to embarrass management, and think everything will work out.Stone, I am not sure on.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Don't be silly. Gio wasn't Norris caliber with Hamilton by his side.

Ha, you have never seen my frog play though!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Defensively he's probably 4th, behind at least Gio, Hamonic and Hanifin (who I think has really picked up his defensive game). So does his offence make up that gap? Offensively he's behind Gio and ahead of Hamonic and probably Hanifin (at this point).

Arbitrary rankings. 4th? Why?

Turning to facts, never mind just Brodie’s offense. Look as well at Gio’s offense with primary partner Brodie. He is no longer doing the heavy lifting for Hamilton, he is more effective with a partner he can trust.

[SeanCharles]

This has quickly become a Brodie debate thread..

I actually think the whole topic goes deeper than that and is something that needs to be addressed, sooner or later.

The fact of the matter is come next season we will have 4 young dmen that are good enough and would benefit from playing regular NHL minutes. We also have Gio, Brodie, Hamonic and Stone under contract with Prout and Fantenburg as guys who could be retained as depth.

That leaves you with 7 guys who should be playing regular minutes and an 8th in Stone already signed. As such, unless we want to keep Valimaki in the minors until injuries strike I don't know how else to solve the logjam other than trading one of those 7 guys.

We need another top 6 forward, specifically a RWer, as evidenced by Treliving's heavy pursuit of Stone. Wouldn't it make sense from an asset management standpoint to trade one of those 7 dmen to address this area of weakness?

Using our depth on defense would be wise to use as trade bait considering our depth and the fact a few guys will need to be re-signed by the end of next season. You dont want risk losing Brodie or Hamonic for nothing and by the time they are up holding Valimaki back will probably no longer be an option.

So now the debate switches to who should we use as tradebait?

For a number of obvious reasons I feel like the choice is between Brodie, Hamonic or Kylington. Valimaki and Andersson are players Treliving has voiced he has no interest in trading while Gio and Hanifin are locked up for years.

Now who do we want to trade, a young and promising player in Kylington, a unique player in our system due to size, grit, RHedness and defensive acumen rolled into one in Hamonic or our top pairing dman who has had ups and downs in his time here and is currently at a peak in his performance?

It's not an easy choice but Brodie has alot of similar traits to Hanifin and Kylington so I think that gives him the edge over Hamonic even if Hamonic is technically the 2nd pair guy. I would prefer to go with the young developing guy, in Kylington, over him as well.

I think Brodie is a big part of the team but also think Gio, Hanifin and Hamonic are more imperative to our longterm success. The other 3 are young and developing so they are also very important for our future.

Even if Brodie plays the right side I dont see it being a huge problem to forsee one of Hanifin or Kylington being able to switch sides also.

Trading Brodie is smart asset management because it allows us to get a return on Brodie before his contract expires, makes sure the youngsters can get icetime to develop and affords Treliving the opportunity to use him as a chip to upgrade in other areas.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Brodie is our #2 because of his chemistry with Giordano. I think that’s why he gets moved because if you look at his stats he has high value. But as soon as you remove him from Giordano he falls off the map. I believe they call it the Crosby effect. Andersson has shown he can slot up into Brodie’s spot pretty seemlessly. I’d say move Brodie in the offseason to create more room for our up and coming D. I also suspect he does not stay a top 2 dman on any team he goes too.

Other than Andersson, who we'll likely need for the bottom pairing or filling in if Hamonic/Brodie get hurt, we have no up and coming D on the right side. Kylington doesn't count unless he proves he can play that side.

[Flames1217]

Brodie will most likely be traded for a tender with some picks(Goalies do not go for much)

Fro will be sent out for picks and or depth players

All the other stuff is the usual, Smith wont be brought back, Dube should make the team full time next year taking Frolik's spot on the third line.

Neal's contract is a bummer though, no way any team takes it. We could retain half the salary, but we would likely be going big game hunting on July 1st which is never a good idea

[Poe969]

Neal's contract is as bad as Hamonic's was last year when everyone wanted to trade him. Neal is a proven player and just needs time, he'll still be here for a while.

Smith, Brodie, Frolik, are my big 3 and for some reason I think janko might be traded, depending on the playoffs.

[PaperBagger'14]

I dont see it likely that Neal gets moved unless he comes back to form. Neal is a prime candidate for a compliance buyout after next lockout (if they come back on the table).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Arbitrary rankings. 4th? Why?

Turning to facts, never mind just Brodie’s offense. Look as well at Gio’s offense with primary partner Brodie. He is no longer doing the heavy lifting for Hamilton, he is more effective with a partner he can trust.

4th may be arbitrary but it's because I don't think defensively he's as good as Gio, Hamonic or Hanifin. Do you?

Gio's offence is coming from himself, and overall team play being better. Brodie helps, but then, Gio wasn't as necessary for offence beside Hamilton, because Hamilton was putting up a lot of points.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That's a complete load of BS .

The Bouwmeester-Giordano pair was outscored 41-49 in their time together. That's on a team that had Kipper in net and Iginla up front.

The Giordano - Wideman pair was outscored 31-28 in their time together. And that includes Wideman's career year where everything he threw on net turned into goals.

The Giordano - Engelland pair was outscored 18-13 in their time together.

Despite all this, in 2013-14 when our top forwards were guys like Matt Stajan, half a season of Cammalleri, Lee Stempniak, and Mikael Backlund, the Gio - Brodie pair outscored their opponents 37 - 30. That's before Gaudreau, before Monahan, before Tkachuk, before Lindholm. That's with a guys like Reto Berra and a 22 year old Joni Ortio in net for us. But according to your logic that was 100% Giordano. It's B.S.

So far this season the Giordano - Andersson pair has played together for a few games against non playoff teams with putrid top lines. How about we toss Andersson out there against the Avs' top line, or the Blues' top line of Schenn-Rielly-Tarassenko, before jumping to conclusions

Giordano was a late bloomer. He's been better in his last 5-6 years than earlier in his career. He wasn't the elite player he is now back when he played with Bouwmeester.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Giordano was a late bloomer. He's been better in his last 5-6 years than earlier in his career. He wasn't the elite player he is now back when he played with Bouwmeester.

What you're actually saying is that Giordano "became elite" at age 30 the exact same year he started playing with TJ Brodie.

It's not a coincidence.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

4th may be arbitrary but it's because I don't think defensively he's as good as Gio, Hamonic or Hanifin. Do you?

Gio's offence is coming from himself, and overall team play being better. Brodie helps, but then, Gio wasn't as necessary for offence beside Hamilton, because Hamilton was putting up a lot of points.

Yes, I think he's defensively better than Hanifin. He may be guilty of often thinking offense first, but when you match him up to a Crosby or McDavid where his mindset becomes defense first, he is a shut down defenseman.

I actually also think he's actually a more dependable PKer than Giordano, and would like to see a Brodie - Hamonic PK unit because Brodie closes space better and that's been a big issue on our PK. Having both Gio and Hamonic try and block shots seems to give teams too much space. When Gio takes a penalty and Brodie steps in, our PK1 looks far more crisp the last three years.