GM Layoffs

[CaptainCrunch]

Financial Posts on the Why's and the grim future of the Auto Industry in Canada


https://business.financialpost.com/t..._autoplay=true

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Financial Posts on the Why's and the grim future of the Auto Industry in Canada


https://business.financialpost.com/t..._autoplay=true

Thats like lamenting closing the steel mills in Hamilton.

Because of course they did because we simply cant compete.

[Peanut]

Or the constant lamentations of coal miners. Bring back coal!! Bring back traditional manufacturing!! No. The industry is changing (or in some cases, dying completely).

Also someone mentioned earlier, Trump is hastening this demise with his steel tariffs.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Or the constant lamentations of coal miners. Bring back coal!! Bring back traditional manufacturing!! No. The industry is changing (or in some cases, dying completely).

Also someone mentioned earlier, Trump is hastening this demise with his steel tariffs.

Exactly.

"You make something nobody wants or uses. So please stop."

[The Yen Man]

Again, Canada shoots itself in the foot. They are a resource rich country. So what do they do? They make it as hard as possible for companies to come in and extract that resource. In the meantime, they prop up dying companies that are either manufacturing outdated products (GM), or just suck as a company (Bombardier).

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Financial Posts on the Why's and the grim future of the Auto Industry in Canada


https://business.financialpost.com/t..._autoplay=true

That's an interesting chart. I didn't realize that North American vehicle sales have already peaked post recession. And that peak is way down per unit from 10-20 years ago. The whole ride-sharing/vehicle sharing future is closer than I realized.

[Robbob]

Listening to CBC yesterday they mentioned that the Oshawa facility was only running at 50% capacity. If that is true then I think this is just strictly a business decision based on a changing market. I don't see the point to continue to throw money into an industry that has changed. I think Ford mentioned that the times have changed and we are competing globally now. Things just aren't the same as they used to be.

We have all seen it in the oil patch and fisheries and people have had to adapt. The world is a different place now where people change careers multiple times.

We also keep hearing about the bailout given to GM in 2008, which if I am not mistaken was repaid. It gave another decade to the industry.

Silver lining is these 2600 workers get a full year to try and sort things out, which is a far cry with what we are seeing in Calgary. For those older workers it was talked that part of the package for help would be to help bridge them to retirement. So it sounds like between the packages from GM and the potential help from governments that a good chuck that can be taken care of. It may not help the younger employees there, but it sounds like there will be a lot of help available (extended EI, being able to take courses and collect EI, education programs, etc), which sounds like more then what was offered out here.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Locke

Exactly.

"You make something nobody wants or uses. So please stop."

Except coal still accounts for more than a quarter of the worlds energy, 30 million tons of Canadian coal is used for metallurgy, and we exported 31 million tons of it last year. 7 billion tons worldwide, yep, no one wants or uses it.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Except coal still accounts for more than a quarter of the worlds energy, 30 million tons of Canadian coal is used for metallurgy, and we exported 31 million tons of it last year. 7 billion tons worldwide, yep, no one wants or uses it.

** not subject to JT's end use carbon analysis. **

Then again most of it is produced in BC and sent over to China. And they vote Liberal... so....

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Listening to CBC yesterday they mentioned that the Oshawa facility was only running at 50% capacity. If that is true then I think this is just strictly a business decision based on a changing market. I don't see the point to continue to throw money into an industry that has changed. I think Ford mentioned that the times have changed and we are competing globally now. Things just aren't the same as they used to be.

We have all seen it in the oil patch and fisheries and people have had to adapt. The world is a different place now where people change careers multiple times.

We also keep hearing about the bailout given to GM in 2008, which if I am not mistaken was repaid. It gave another decade to the industry.

Silver lining is these 2600 workers get a full year to try and sort things out, which is a far cry with what we are seeing in Calgary. For those older workers it was talked that part of the package for help would be to help bridge them to retirement. So it sounds like between the packages from GM and the potential help from governments that a good chuck that can be taken care of. It may not help the younger employees there, but it sounds like there will be a lot of help available (extended EI, being able to take courses and collect EI, education programs, etc), which sounds like more then what was offered out here.

2600 is still small potatoes compared to the jobs lost in Alberta over the years. The only reason this is big news is because it's happening in Ontario. The problem for the federal government is unlike Bombardier they can't buy back those jobs to keep voters happy.

[temple5]

For anyone who has been employed pre-2008 I do feel for them. Anyone employed post 2008 you cannot really think this wasnt a possibility.

However, this is a classic case of governments making decisions and then companies reacting to them and people blaming the companies and not the governments.

Emission standards for 2020 in the US are changing such that normal cars that run on gasoline likely wont be able to meet new EPA and California standards.

This along with reduced profit margins are why companies are phasing out cars. Oshawa produces 2 models of cars that GM are phasing out and they do finishing work on a truck which can easily be moved to a plant else where to keep that plant running efficiently.

You will see alot more "cross over" type vehicles which are basically cars raised a bit and some angles changed. If they do that then they can be classified as trucks and can at least reduce some emission standards.

Look at the Subaru Outback and Crosstrek for the type of vehicles you will see alot more of because they are classed as tucks and not cars.

[CaptainCrunch]

Well they could do the radical I guess. Hold a press conference with the head of the union and Trudeau


Union Head - "We can't keep GM here, they're bound and determined to shut down. But we have an exciting announcement. We've reached an agreement with the Federal Government, I turn the floor over to the Right Honorable Justin Trudeau our Prime Minister and savior"


Trudeau - "We've reached an agreement to take over the Oshawa plant effective in December of next year. The Federal Government has committed $500 million dollars to re purpose the plant to build a made in Canada car that will be called the Justin. Effective immediately we will hold a social media contest asking for ideas about what this car should have, then it will be designed by a top notch Federal Government task force and go into production next year.


Union Head - "On top of that not only are we going to save these 2400 jobs, but add another 3000 jobs and everyone will get a raise"


A four more years chant starts


Trudeau - "Now this isn't about the next election, this is about good middle class jobs and the next election"

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Corporations have turned us against each other and made us to feel "blessed" to have decent work, or in some cases, just "work" no matter how low paying and ####ty it is. Expect more for our workers and country ffs. God damn it guys.

Listen man, your comments about CP's 1%, Notley doing a good job, Canada Post, and other various economic issues are about as divisive as they come.

The ooga-booga evil capitalism stance is childish. You just refuse to be critical of any level of government (non-PC) in any of this, so what kind of discussion do you expect to honestly have?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

You just refuse to be critical of any level of government (non-PC) in any of this, so what kind of discussion do you expect to honestly have?

I don’t think white out’s take on the liberal party’s decision to force Canada post employees back to work can be described as anything other than critical.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Listen man, your comments about CP's 1%, Notley doing a good job, Canada Post, and other various economic issues are about as divisive as they come.

The ooga-booga evil capitalism stance is childish. You just refuse to be critical of any level of government (non-PC) in any of this, so what kind of discussion do you expect to honestly have?

The 1% comment is an ongoing joke that you seem to think I am excluded from making. It wasn't meant as a serious comment.

I am tremendously critical of the federal liberals and the BC NDP for their pipline ####.

Notley doing a good job isn't divisive. Her approval rating in deep blue Alberta is 40%. That speaks volumes about her leadership.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Except coal still accounts for more than a quarter of the worlds energy, 30 million tons of Canadian coal is used for metallurgy, and we exported 31 million tons of it last year. 7 billion tons worldwide, yep, no one wants or uses it.

China: Did someone say coal?




source: https://chinaenergyportal.org/en/201...-of-june-2018/ (best English language site for info on the massive Chinese electricity system, but unfortunately it's site certificate recently expired).

[flamesfever]

I can appreciate all the reasons for GM shutting down the Oshawa plant, however a part of me wants to see us produce and consume a reasonable portion of our own autos.

Should we not try and keep our manufacturing base...if only for security reasons in case of war?

Not that I am a nationalist...however, I think I am starting to see that there may be a limit as to how far we should go in having all our goods produced or resources developed somewhere else...particularly by nations which do not have the same standards we set for ourselves.

Maybe there's a balance somewhere.

[Weitz]

If I'm GM I would have just announced the plant is closing in 2 weeks.. If that means waiting till next december so be it.

Now you are going to get the Union take "labour action" and likely get the plant closed sooner.

Or its all a ruse to get big time government handouts that I assume will be announced in short order.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I can appreciate all the reasons for GM shutting down the Oshawa plant, however a part of me wants to see us produce and sell a reasonable portion of our own autos.

Should we not try and keep our manufacturing base...if only for security reasons in case of war?

Not that I am a nationalist...however, I think I am starting to see that there may be a limit as to how far we should go in having all our goods produced or resources developed somewhere else...particularly by nations which do not have the same standards we set for ourselves.

If we go to war and the US doesn't have our back, we are getting obliterated.

[The Yen Man]

I don't think there's any realistic scenario where Canada goes to war and the US doesn't defend them. There's no way the US would let Canada be invaded when we share such a big border. The more realistic scenario is the US conquering Canada TBH.