The Athletic: Dube article

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

What were the knocks against him heading into the draft, other than not real big? He's obviously not huge, but far from a smurf also. I'm curious now why he wasn't picked higher.

I think his size was his only real knock. If I remember correctly Button had him ranked low 20s and McKenzie 30ish.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

I think his size was his only real knock. If I remember correctly Button had him ranked low 20s and McKenzie 30ish.

Central scouting had him at 41 among NA skaters so you add in the Euros and he likely went a little higher than where he may have.

https://www.tsn.ca/2016-nhl-central-...nders-1.470328

[Remember1989]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Where did you hear about the subscriber event?

Received an email with a link to this eventbrite invite (click to see details since event has passed):

https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/the-athl...s-48975386700#

[TOfan]

Said it in other threads. Dube's going to take Sam Bennett's job. I thought it would take till the deadline, but it might happen sooner than later.


Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm
Tkachuk Backlund Neal
Dube Ryan Czarnik
Mangipane Jankowski Frolik
Hathaway

Flames should look to get some picks to replenish what they've spent over the past two years.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Said it in other threads. Dube's going to take Sam Bennett's job. I thought it would take till the deadline, but it might happen sooner than later.


Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm
Tkachuk Backlund Neal
Dube Ryan Czarnik
Mangipane Jankowski Frolik
Hathaway

Flames should look to get some picks to replenish what they've spent over the past two years.

Good god. It’s actually happening.

Tre has a pretty darn intriguing offseason, and before a game has been played Bennett is the whipping boy.

Any roster that includes Hathaway in the mix for any point, even popcorn, and excludes Bennett, is bloody well insane.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Said it in other threads. Dube's going to take Sam Bennett's job. I thought it would take till the deadline, but it might happen sooner than later.


Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm
Tkachuk Backlund Neal
Dube Ryan Czarnik
Mangipane Jankowski Frolik
Hathaway

Flames should look to get some picks to replenish what they've spent over the past two years.

Here come the pitchforks.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Good god. It’s actually happening.

Tre has a pretty darn intriguing offseason, and before a game has been played Bennett is the whipping boy.

Any roster that includes Hathaway in the mix for any point, even popcorn, and excludes Bennett, is bloody well insane.

He's not the whipping boy, he's just becoming expendable. Smart organizations deal from a position of depth. The Flames should leverage the asset, in this case Bennett, to recoup some of the draft currency they've spent over the past two years.

I hope Sam can find a role and contribute here, but it doesn't look promising.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

I think his size was his only real knock. If I remember correctly Button had him ranked low 20s and McKenzie 30ish.

Found Button's ...
Button 2016

28th for Dube
38th for Fox
39th for Parsons

Flames nailed that draft ... lucky at the top that Tkachuk fell to them and then went shopping in the second round.

Here's McKenzie
McKenzie 2016

Dube 39th
Parsons 48th
Fox 55th

Always interesting how the Button brothers seem to be on the same page.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by TOfan

He's not the whipping boy.

Have you not read ANY CP thread in the last year? He is a Grade A whipping boy. I’m still in the camp of give him a chance but I fear yours is the most likely scenario. I think he’s so deep into his own head that only a change of scenery will get him back on track.

I had a dream he was traded to the Penguins, got some reps with Crosby, and ended up in the 60 point range

Matt

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Found Button's ...
Button 2016

28th for Dube
38th for Fox
39th for Parsons

Flames nailed that draft ... lucky at the top that Tkachuk fell to them and then went shopping in the second round.

Here's McKenzie
McKenzie 2016

Dube 39th
Parsons 48th
Fox 55th

Always interesting how the Button brothers seem to be on the same page.

Yup that draft was a beauty. It was a deep draft too. I think Dube easily could have gone in the first in a weaker draft. If Parsons can develop into a starting goalie, Dube into a second line dynamic center man would that be a draft for the Flames.

Startiing Goalie
1st Line Selke caliber winger
2nd Line scoring center

We definitely can't count our Matthew Phillips either.


Imagine in a few years a line of Tkachuk - Dube - Phillips haha only dreaming but that would be cool.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Said it in other threads. Dube's going to take Sam Bennett's job. I thought it would take till the deadline, but it might happen sooner than later.


Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm
Tkachuk Backlund Neal
Dube Ryan Czarnik
Mangipane Jankowski Frolik
Hathaway

Flames should look to get some picks to replenish what they've spent over the past two years.

I would have traded Bennett this summer.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by pepper24

I would have traded Bennett this summer.

Why? He's a decent player on a cheap contract and he still has some potential to grow - He's a great 3rd/4th liner and PK player at this point. He probably doesn't have any real trade value at this point, so a trade seems pointless.

I suspect if he wasn't the 4th overall pick people wouldn't be so eager to trade a great depth forward.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Why? He's a decent player on a cheap contract and he still has some potential to grow - He's a great 3rd/4th liner and PK player at this point. He probably doesn't have any real trade value at this point, so a trade seems pointless.

I suspect if he wasn't the 4th overall pick people wouldn't be so eager to trade a great depth forward.

It really just comes down to him being a black hole offensively. The minute he starts scoring consistently everyone will love Bennett again.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

It really just comes down to him being a black hole offensively. The minute he starts scoring consistently everyone will love Bennett again.

I don't really think he's an offensive black hole... he puts up numbers consistent with a 3rd liner. Why does Bennett get traded and Hathaway and Lazar are still around? Why is Mangiapane penciled in when he didn't manage a single goal in ten games last season? I think Bennett is unfairly targeted. He's a decent player, he plays with an edge and he will likely improve his game over the next couple of years.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I don't really think he's an offensive black hole... he puts up numbers consistent with a 3rd liner. Why does Bennett get traded and Hathaway and Lazar are still around? Why is Mangiapane penciled in when he didn't manage a single goal in ten games last season? I think Bennett is unfairly targeted. He's a decent player, he plays with an edge and he will likely improve his game over the next couple of years.

Exactly

The range in third line forwards by points last year was 22-33, that's it. His off years are 26, his good year was 36 and he may still have upside.

That same range in salary is 1M to 4.4M.

Bennett is an average third line player making less than average for a third line player.

Little doubt he's been a disappointment compared to his draft position, but the need to over dramatize what he actually is is befuddling.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Exactly

The range in third line forwards by points last year was 22-33, that's it. His off years are 26, his good year was 36 and he may still have upside.

That same range in salary is 1M to 4.4M.

Bennett is an average third line player making less than average for a third line player.

Little doubt he's been a disappointment compared to his draft position, but the need to over dramatize what he actually is is befuddling.

Just out of curiosity. Any idea what those numbers are for top 10 teams ? I'd assume the bad teams bring those numbers down substantially if I had to guess.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

Just out of curiosity. Any idea what those numbers are for top 10 teams ? I'd assume the bad teams bring those numbers down substantially if I had to guess.

Given the Flames finished 18th last year, the average is probably pretty fair.

I can look though.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

Just out of curiosity. Any idea what those numbers are for top 10 teams ? I'd assume the bad teams bring those numbers down substantially if I had to guess.

Here are the point total numbers for forward 7 through 9 on last years final 4 (3rd line) with no pro-ration for GP.

Tampa Bay:
7th- 44 pts
8th- 35 pts
9th- 29 pts

Washington:
7th - 27 pts
8th - 27 pts
9th - 25 pts

Winnipeg:
7th - 39 pts
8th - 29 pts
9th - 28 pts

Las Vegas:
7th - 37 pts
8th - 27 pts
9th - 16 pts

So similar to Bennett's 26 pts in what was a bad season - where he was pointless for the first 10+ games - still puts him in line with 3rd liners on the NHLs elite teams last season.

Bennett will never live up to his billing as 4th overall pick... but if he can become a consistent 15/15 type of guy in a bottom 6 role that will be big for this team in being successful overall. Especially since he can play with some grit and a bit of an edge - just needs to tone down on the stick infractions.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Will be interesting to see how the Flames build their roster. One thing that is always prevalent is the notion of "Vets taking it easy" because it is preseason, vs "Rookies going balls to the wall to make the team".


I think Dube has already done enough to pencil himself into the lineup. He just needs to keep it up. I figure Peluso will be on the team as the 13/14th forward. Hathaway seems to have found himself in the good graces of Peters by the looks of it (and really, I think he has had a much better camp than last season).


I bet Dube makes it. I think the Flames roll with 4 scoring lines, with Dube on the 4th with Jankowski and Bennett. That would be the way I go. Just makes sense. Give someone a break who may have a nagging injury to slot Peluso into the lineup for the Edmonton games. That's about all he should be playing in.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Will be interesting to see how the Flames build their roster. One thing that is always prevalent is the notion of "Vets taking it easy" because it is preseason, vs "Rookies going balls to the wall to make the team".


I think Dube has already done enough to pencil himself into the lineup. He just needs to keep it up. I figure Peluso will be on the team as the 13/14th forward. Hathaway seems to have found himself in the good graces of Peters by the looks of it (and really, I think he has had a much better camp than last season).


I bet Dube makes it. I think the Flames roll with 4 scoring lines, with Dube on the 4th with Jankowski and Bennett. That would be the way I go. Just makes sense. Give someone a break who may have a nagging injury to slot Peluso into the lineup for the Edmonton games. That's about all he should be playing in.

You won't see both Hathaway and Dube on the team, unless someone is moved to make space. Realistically, there is only one forward position available, with Hathaway, Dube, Mangiapane, Lazar, and Foo fighting for it. I don't see any of them displacing Bennett, who has shown way more at every level than any of them, plays with some sandpaper, and is looking good on the PK so far. I do agree, however, that Peluso might make it as an extra forward, being brought in to keep an eye on Lucic for 4 games this season and eating popcorn for the rest. I don't think I would bring him into the lineup in the case of an injury, unless it was impossible to get anyone else up in time.