[Rumour] Flames interested in Tobias Rieder

[Scroopy Noopers]

“Come on Treliving! Bring in some players and fix the team”

* Treliving brings in new coach, works on some trades, and seemingly exhausts all possible free agent options.

“No! Not like that!”

[Vinny01]

I would be okay with this signing

[keenan87]

Rieder and Ryan on the fourth line would be a very terrific fourth line imo.

Prior to this past season, Rieder had 34 points (16 goals) and 37 points (14 goals). He has gotten 10+ goals every season that he has played in the league.

Rieder-Ryan-Frolik

I think that would give you a fourth line that can chip in offense, can play defense, and would be a solid all-around line. If all three get at least 10 goals, that is 30 goals from your bottom line which is definitely above average.

[mrdonkey]

Personally I'd still like to see one more legitimate scoring threat brought in, but that's tinted by my disbelief in Bennett more than anything else. If he has a breakout we're laughing, but I've been burned by him too many times before. And admittedly this would be a luxury that pushes us from playoff team to contender where perhaps the focus right now is just on getting from bubble team to consistent playoff team status.

In which case improving the depth should be the #1 priority. I'd have no problem with Ryan, Reaves, and Reider being our big July 1st splash. And then perhaps we could package Stone and Bennett for a decent 2nd line winger in a trade over the summer.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think getting a top 6 player via UFA is unrealistic and probably a bad idea. JVR had Calgary on his no trade list and will be overpaid. James Neal will be overpaid.
If the team has decided that Brodie is part of the go forward solution with Gio then it takes away the chip I thought would be used to get a true top forward.
But I also don't think giving Brodie another chance, rather than selling low, is a bad approach.
The team still seems heavy on D, but I see the likely move being Stone for a pick.
So what are we left with?
- Either the team is happy with its top 6 and instead is focusing on acquiring some more offensive punch for the bottom 6. Again this may not be a bad idea, though I also was of the mind a true top line forward will really help
- Offer sheet to a guy like Mark Stone isn't on the table as they don't have the required picks. Pointing this out because Pinder suggested it this morning.
- Trade. I still think Minny is the target here. They need to shed salary. They have 3 forwards who could all fit (Nino, Coyle, Zucker). My target here would be Nino. Minny wants someone to take on Ennis which Calgary can probably make work. But if it isn't Brodie going the other way who is it. Sam for Nino+Ennis? Seems like Calgary needs more for doing them the favor of taking back Ennis.

I see the most likely outcome being some additions to the bottom 6 and that the team goes forward hoping Elias is a good fit on the top line. But a trade with Minny just seems to make sense.

I don't see a big name on July 1 being added, and frankly I'm ok with that. I think those are going to be bad deals handed out.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

To me if we bring in both Ryan and Rieder that’s not bringing in that top 6 guy that we’ve been rumoured to be interested in. I think the Flames have a plan to get rid of Brouwer and a deal in place for Frolik to open up space for the youth movement and incoming UFA’s.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Top 6 UFA/Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Top 6 UFA/Lindholm
Bennett - Jankowski - Rieder
Mangiapane - Ryan - Dube
Reaves, Lazar

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone
Andersson

Smith
Gillies/Rittich

Nothing saying they can’t add those 2 and still grab the desired top 6 rw.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I get that but on the other hand it wasn't scoring from their top guys that was lacking last year it was the lack of offense from the bottom half of the roster. This addresses that

Yeah and Treliving is pinning all his hopes on everything going right for him. That was the problem last season, the 2nd line didn't replicate their career years, Bennett didn't take a step forward and Brouwer took yet another step back.

How can he expect Hanifin and Lindholm to somehow replace the 38 goals we just lost when the two players have averaged 14 and 6 goals a season up to date in their careers? If they do somehow manage to match that, does that make us any better than just an average to poor goal scoring team again next season? It's insanity.

Treliving's long list of failed players is irritating me beyond belief right now and the worst part is, he doesn't even look like he's even trying to change it.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Royle9

These "depth" signings basically confirm that no young guys will be given a fair look this summer which is a bit upsetting to me.

Okey first of all... the Flames being rumored to be interested in a guy does not = a signing. Not even close. Heck I'd say the Flames will sign maybe one of the guys they're rumored to (Ryan would be my guess).

Originally Posted by Royle9

This year we could potentially have: (based on the rumors)

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Rieder - Jankowski - Bennett
Brouwer - Ryan - Reaves
Hathaway, Lazar

Why are people constantly penciling in Ryan on the fourth line? He got 38 points last year which would have put him 6th among Flame forwards. He's not going to be a fourth liner guys... hell I'd say he's more likely to be a 1st liner then he is a 4th liner given how much the coach reportably likes him.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the Flames sign Ryan and Reaves, and that is it (they are unable to acquire a top 6). Even if that is the case, I believe the top 9 would be (in no particular order, just top 9):

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Bennett - Jankowski - Tkachuk
Frolik - Backlund - Ryan

that leaves:

Lazar, Mangiapane, Dube, Foo, Brouwer, and Reaves

for the 4th line and popcorn munching. And that's the worst case, nobody-steps-up scenario.

I believe they will try to acquire another top 9, which would push Ryan down into the 4th line group, making it even more crowded.

Also, what if Mangiapane or Dube or Foo could crack the top 9? That could push Frolik down to the 4th line as well.

Imagine if they sign a UFA, and either Mangiapane or Dube can step up? Then the lineup looks something like this:

Gaudreau - Monahan - UFA
Bennett - Jankowski - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Lindholm
Frolik - Lazar - Ryan
Reaves,
(Dube, Foo, Brouwer)

and then add Reider to that!

IMO, Brouwer will not be part of the 'starting top 12' this year.

You're only forgetting Hathaway who was basically our 13th forward last season and who I envisioned being the 13th forward this year as well until I heard the rumblings of Reaves come about. Hathaway being qualified may not mean NHL but all signs would indicate that to be the case. The guys 26 already, I'm not sure we need him in the NHL or AHL at this point but thats just my opinion.

2 things I dont see happening:

1. Brouwer NOT playing in the lineup @ 4.5 mil

1. Frolik demoted to 4th line minutes

I think Mangiapane is READY to be in the top 9 (3rd line)
I think Dube SHOULD be ready to play in the NHL this year
I think Foo COULD be ready to play top 9 this year
I think Klimchuk COULD be ready to play shutdown role this year.

However there's just no room for these guys, I dont think we'd sign a Reaves/Reider/Ryan and then NOT play them in the NHL this year, they wouldn't sign if thats the case.

So while it looks like these young guys are competing with the Reaves/Ryan's on the 4th line you can pretty much lock up 2 slots for them and leave 1 open for Lazar, Hathaway, Mangiapane, Dube, Foo and Klimchuk and that's the part I dislike most.

In a perfect world I want to see:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Jankowski - UFA/Bennett
Mangiapane - Backlund - Frolik
Dube - Ryan - Foo

Reaves 13th forward inserted when need be
Klimchuk 1st call up for bottom 6
Brouwer bought out

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yeah and Treliving is pinning all his hopes on everything going right for him. That was the problem last season, the 2nd line didn't replicate their career years, Bennett didn't take a step forward and Brouwer took yet another step back.

How can he expect Hanifin and Lindholm to somehow replace the 38 goals we just lost when the two players have averaged 14 and 6 goals a season up to date in their careers? If they do somehow manage to match that, does that make us any better than just an average to poor goal scoring team again next season? It's insanity.

Treliving's long list of failed players is irritating me beyond belief right now and the worst part is, he doesn't even look like he's even trying to change it.

I cannot wait until Ferland goes back to a 10-15 goal scorer next year. Then, we can finally stop with people thinking he is some legitimate Top 6 player. I might be alone, but I am willing to bet that Lindholm scores more goals than Ferland.

As for your stance, if you are saying that Treliving is hoping everything goes perfect.. Then wouldn't hoping Ferland follows-up his career year with another 20 goal season also pinning hopes on everything going right?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I cannot wait until Ferland goes back to a 10-15 goal scorer next year. Then, we can finally stop with people thinking he is some legitimate Top 6 player. I might be alone, but I am willing to bet that Lindholm scores more goals than Ferland.
?

I totally agree. It depends on what type of opportunity Ferland gets in Carolina but he was pretty terrible the 2nd half of the year. I pencil him in for 10 goals.
Lindholm I think isn't a great goal scorer but will drive more offense overall and be a far better overall player.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think getting a top 6 player via UFA is unrealistic and probably a bad idea. JVR had Calgary on his no trade list and will be overpaid. James Neal will be overpaid.
If the team has decided that Brodie is part of the go forward solution with Gio then it takes away the chip I thought would be used to get a true top forward.
But I also don't think giving Brodie another chance, rather than selling low, isn't a bad approach.
The team still seems heavy on D, but I see the likely move being Stone for a pick.
So what are we left with?
- Either the team is happy with its top 6 and instead is focusing on acquiring some more offensive punch for the bottom 6. Again this may not be a bad idea, though I also was of the mind a true top line forward will really help
- Offer sheet to a guy like Mark Stone isn't on the table as they don't have the required picks. Pointing this out because Pinder suggested it this morning.
- Trade. I still think Minny is the target here. They need to shed salary. They have 3 forwards who could all fit (Nino, Coyle, Zucker). My target here would be Nino. Minny wants someone to take on Ennis which Calgary can probably make work. But if it isn't Brodie going the other way who is it. Sam for Nino+Ennis? Seems like Calgary needs more for doing them the favor of taking back Ennis.

I see the most likely outcome being some additions to the bottom 6 and that the team goes forward hoping Elias is a good fit on the top line. But a trade with Minny just seems to make sense.

I don't see a big name on July 1 being added, and frankly I'm ok with that. I think those are going to be bad deals handed out.

I think it might be possible to add a second line type but I agree that a top line player via UFA is not advisable. Really successful additions are where you supplement an already good core with, say, a Gaborik or a Stastny.

This team's biggest issues were bottom 6 (especially third line) contribution and a lack of production on the power play. Personally I think the powerplay was a matter of execution and not personnel so much - they were just too slow. They gained the zone just fine but were easy to defend after that. That's a coaching issue.

Bottom six - you hope a kid like Mangiapane or Foo or maybe Dube steps up. You sign a Ryan or a Reider to add a little punch. You hope Jankowski progresses and Bennett recovers a bit.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

You must have missed the part where the Flames top 6 were quite good, but the bottom 6 put up woefully underwhelming numbers. If you want to improve team goal scoring numbers, you need to improve offensive depth. Reider does that.

And you must have missed that despite career years from just about everybody in the top 6, we still finished 5th last in goals, tied with the rebuilding Vancouver Canucks. Not to mention that outstanding PP of ours that finished 29th will likely not be fixed by the likes of Ryan, Reider or Reaves who combined for a meager 5 PP goals in their respective seasons.

It's the same thing every year, we grab these average players and hope and pray that they put us over the top and then we flame out in the 1st round or don't make the playoffs at all and then we just go out and do the same things over and over and over again hoping for different results, it's insanity.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

And you must have missed that despite career years from just about everybody in the top 6, we still finished 5th last in goals, tied with the rebuilding Vancouver Canucks. Not to mention that outstanding PP of ours that finished 29th will likely not be fixed by the likes of Ryan, Reider or Reaves who combined for a meager 5 PP goals in their respective seasons.

The team has enough talent to have an effective PP. I don't see that issue being about personnel.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yeah and Treliving is pinning all his hopes on everything going right for him. That was the problem last season, the 2nd line didn't replicate their career years, Bennett didn't take a step forward and Brouwer took yet another step back.

How can he expect Hanifin and Lindholm to somehow replace the 38 goals we just lost when the two players have averaged 14 and 6 goals a season up to date in their careers? If they do somehow manage to match that, does that make us any better than just an average to poor goal scoring team again next season? It's insanity.

Treliving's long list of failed players is irritating me beyond belief right now and the worst part is, he doesn't even look like he's even trying to change it.

I know, right? It's almost as if he doesn't agree that your narrow view of the team is the definitive one. Crazy.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The team has enough talent to have an effective PP. I don't see that issue being about on ice personnel.

Key distinction. I agree.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The team has enough talent to have an effective PP. I don't see that issue being about personnel.

The team lost arguably its best PP threat on the backend so there are definite personnel concerns there for me. The Flames cannot afford to have a middle of the road PP or worse again because they cannot gain the zone or get pucks through.

Johnny-Monahan-Tkachuk
Gio-Lindholm

Beyond this it still gets tragically inadequate and I see no issue with bringing in a mercenary shooter like Vanek or Grabner on a short term deal to be used sparingly at ES and fill a very crucial shooting role on the PP. This team desperately needs players that can move the puck besides Johnny and this would allow a guy like Lindholm to slide back to the second unit to do so.

Johnny-Monahan-Tkachuk
Gio-Vanek

Bennett-Backlund-Lindholm
Brodie-Jankowski

[Machiavelli]

Ferland seems like a decent guy, has overcome some really tough personal struggles, and as far as I know he was a good teammate.

I hope he has a great season with the Hurricanes.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I cannot wait until Ferland goes back to a 10-15 goal scorer next year. Then, we can finally stop with people thinking he is some legitimate Top 6 player. I might be alone, but I am willing to bet that Lindholm scores more goals than Ferland.

As for your stance, if you are saying that Treliving is hoping everything goes perfect.. Then wouldn't hoping Ferland follows-up his career year with another 20 goal season also pinning hopes on everything going right?

Ferland might not be the definitive answer, but he's also the only player that actually managed to mesh well with Gaudreau and Monahan since Hudler. The chemistry between them was unmistakable and the stats proved it.

Gaudreau and Monahan had career years this season with him as their RW with 84 points and 64 points respectively and then when you look at previous season in 16-17, when Ferland was permanently put on a line with these 2, it was instant success (Gaudreau: 26 points in 23 games & Monahan: 23 points in 23 games). Ferland helped make these guys better without a doubt. I don't know if Lindholm can find the same chemistry, but it's a big risk and will be a big fail if he doesn't.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

IMO if young players can't come in and outplay Brouwer, Lazar or Hathaway, then they are still AHL players.

Yeah even if you discount the chances of brouwer being sent down, Lazar and Hathaway are the epitome of bubble players who are competing with anyone for a roster spot.