2018/19 Goaltending Options for the Flames

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Can they just properly develop one, for a change?

I think it was last broadcast or a couple of games ago but Kelly was talking about how the Flames organization had one of the best development programs in the NHL with their affiliate team. I'm not sure how true that is though.

For me, Smith is fine for next season. I'm okay with Rittich as a back up. The only goalie out there that interests me is Ward. Smith/Ward would be a great duo.

[ricardodw]

I don't know how much it would cost and the Flames have a lot of long term cap tied up with the current team but UFA Raatana has a winning record.

His year in Arizona (19-16-6) blows the doors off what Mike Smith did there last year (19-26-9) ... He has a career record of 66-39-15 and is coming off his learning to be a starter year with 44 games. Mike Smith has a career record of 219-220-66.

Developing goalies usually have a rough year the first year they play more than 40 games..

Sometime Rittich or Gillies or even Parson is going to have a first year as a starter and there is a good chance that the Flames don't make the playoffs that year.

What does it take to get Raanta on the UFA market... It will be a huge over payment.
He is having a better year in the same situation where Talbot got his UFA contract for 4.1 x 3 .
Vancouver's went 3.7 x 3 with Markstrom

The Flames need to win now... they have locked up their core for the next 2 years and they are not coming off a season where the Flames will get anything more than cap space in a trade.

Having a solid goalie ready to win now is more important than signing Backlund as a 2/3C and/or Stone as the #5 d-man

[Textcritic]

Wow. Lots of historical revision here...

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

This thread has got me thinking about how other than Kipper the Flames history of goaltending decisions has been pathetic. The backup swap in the Gilmour trade, drafting Kidd over Brodeur, trading Vernon, letting Roloson and Giguere go, Ken Wreggett, Fuhr and Vernon 2.0, wasting a 1st rounder on Krahn, drafting Gillies over Murray, drafting MacDonald over Demko, the three headed goalie monster, a draft pick for Elliot and probably a few more I am forgetting. Heck even the best backup in the league right now, McBackup, was a former Flames draft pick although it's tough to fault management on that one. So frustrating!

Drafting goalies is voodoo. It is why so few are drafted in the first round, and also why so many of the best ones are late picks.
· At the time of the 1990 NHL entry draft this was a consensus pick as Kidd was widely regarded as the next best goalie to play in the NHL.
· Between the time that Roloson played games in Calgary and Saint John and when he finally emerged as a starter in Minnesota, he also played two years in Buffalo, was picked in the 2000 expansion draft by the Columbus Blue Jackets, and played another full year in the AHL.
· Take a look at Matt Murray's numbers leading into the 2012 draft, and they tell you all you need to know about why he was passed over 82-times.
· In hindsight, Elliott did not pan out, but moving a second and a conditional third-round pick for a goalie who just played in the WCF was universally viewed as an acceptable cost.

There are enough legitimate items on your list which are warranted criticisms without you having to make a pile of other things up.

[Textcritic]

I am fine with Smith and Rittich starting with the Flames next year, but really hope that there is a more equitable split in games between them through the first half of the season. My only concern is Smith's play at the Saddledome, which was pretty bad, and a major reason for why the home record was so terrible. He needs to figure this out.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am fine with Smith and Rittich starting with the Flames next year, but really hope that there is a more equitable split in games between them through the first half of the season. My only concern is Smith's play at the Saddledome, which was pretty bad, and a major reason for why the home record was so terrible. He needs to figure this out.

See that's where Rittich's struggles as a forced starter gives me hope where it seems to give most others concern.

He was never going to be ready for a starter role this season and sank a bit, but that experience is going to make him much more ready to take on a larger number of back up games next season, imo.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by jayswin

See that's where Rittich's struggles as a forced starter gives me hope where it seems to give most others concern.

He was never going to be ready for a starter role this season and sank a bit, but that experience is going to make him much more ready to take on a larger number of back up games next season, imo.

This will likely burn a year of Gio's, Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton's contracts without them getting to play hockey in the playoffs.

Then another year where Rittich is a first year starter and the Flames miss the playoffs again. Gio will be 37 when Rittich will be a 28 year old starting goalie.

Backlund will be 33.

Gaudreau will be in his last 2 years on his contract. Hamilton will be playing in his UFA year.

There is no room for patience when you have committed to so many players to playoff type contracts. The Flames are paying for playoff success right now. This is their window.

[CSharp]

stick with Smith and Rittich until Smith retires, but have Rittich play more games to prep him up to be the #1 goalie. Flames have depth in the farm. Hate to lose Gilles, but I think he has potential on another team. If the Flames would get some good depth in their forward lines immediately, they can trade Smith for some value and stick with Rittich and Gilles. You can't lose if you can outscore the opponents on a nightly basis.

Winning by 3+ goals consistently with a goalie that has a GAA of 3.00+ is way better than a goalie with a 2.30 GAA and a mediocre team record.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I don't know how much it would cost and the Flames have a lot of long term cap tied up with the current team but UFA Raatana has a winning record.

His year in Arizona (19-16-6) blows the doors off what Mike Smith did there last year (19-26-9) ... He has a career record of 66-39-15 and is coming off his learning to be a starter year with 44 games. Mike Smith has a career record of 219-220-66.

Developing goalies usually have a rough year the first year they play more than 40 games..

Sometime Rittich or Gillies or even Parson is going to have a first year as a starter and there is a good chance that the Flames don't make the playoffs that year.

What does it take to get Raanta on the UFA market... It will be a huge over payment.
He is having a better year in the same situation where Talbot got his UFA contract for 4.1 x 3 .
Vancouver's went 3.7 x 3 with Markstrom

The Flames need to win now... they have locked up their core for the next 2 years and they are not coming off a season where the Flames will get anything more than cap space in a trade.

Having a solid goalie ready to win now is more important than signing Backlund as a 2/3C and/or Stone as the #5 d-man

I'd be surprises if Raanta doesn't resign with Arizona to be their starter.

And if not Arizona, somewhere else where he can be the #1.

And get paid as one.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

This will likely burn a year of Gio's, Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton's contracts without them getting to play hockey in the playoffs...

I don't think that is at all likely. The team has imploded in the light of a number of key injuries and some internal issues that will hopefully be resolved this summer. But up until Smith's injury the Flames spent the entire season in tight contention for a division playoff spot. Numerous pundits and observers have opined that the Flames are much better than their record, and whether it happens by way of a coaching change or roster adjustments it is not such a stretch to expect them to be in the playoffs next year.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think that is at all likely. The team has imploded in the light of a number of key injuries and some internal issues that will hopefully be resolved this summer. But up until Smith's injury the Flames spent the entire season in tight contention for a division playoff spot. Numerous pundits and observers have opined that the Flames are much better than their record, and whether it happens by way of a coaching change or roster adjustments it is not such a stretch to expect them to be in the playoffs next year.

What are the internal issues of which you speak?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

This will likely burn a year of Gio's, Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton's contracts without them getting to play hockey in the playoffs.

Then another year where Rittich is a first year starter and the Flames miss the playoffs again. Gio will be 37 when Rittich will be a 28 year old starting goalie.

Backlund will be 33.

Gaudreau will be in his last 2 years on his contract. Hamilton will be playing in his UFA year.

There is no room for patience when you have committed to so many players to playoff type contracts. The Flames are paying for playoff success right now. This is their window.

You read too much into my post. I was not insinuating that Rittich be groomed to be our next starter, I was stating that I believe he will be a strong, back up tender for next season who can now take on more games.

Maybe he turns a huge corner in his second NHL season and can be a starter, then great. But if not having Smith as your starter and a strong back up does nothing but give us a chance to win next season.

[jayswin]

In terms of our next actual starter, who knows, but I believe Parsons will likely take a huge step forward next year with the Heat. I'm pretty content with what's transpired with our goaltending this season compared to the last 4 or 5.

The only thing that would frustrate me is if they acquire a proven back up AND keep Gillies and Rittich, leaving no room for Parsons to stay in Stockton.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think that is at all likely. The team has imploded in the light of a number of key injuries and some internal issues that will hopefully be resolved this summer. But up until Smith's injury the Flames spent the entire season in tight contention for a division playoff spot. Numerous pundits and observers have opined that the Flames are much better than their record, and whether it happens by way of a coaching change or roster adjustments it is not such a stretch to expect them to be in the playoffs next year.

The Flames are exactly as good as their record. That’s the point. They have the potential to be better. Even the coach seemed to know this and referred to it before the stick toss.

As an aside, I hope that this idea about injuries does not somehow end up being used as a major part of the narrative to excuse or save this awful coach

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The Flames are exactly as good as their record. That’s the point. They have the potential to be better. Even the coach seemed to know this and referred to it before the stick toss.

As an aside, I hope that this idea about injuries does not somehow end up being used as a major part of the narrative to excuse or save this awful coach

I don't think they will be, besides Smith our significant injuries all came after the burial.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I don't think they will be, besides Smith our significant injuries all came after the burial.

In hindsight the Flames blew it when they lost so many close games due to the anemic power play, even though they were in the mix at the time. They should have been in a solid playoff position and been in a better position to weather the injuries.

[Teroy]

I have no idea how we evaluate Rittich or Gillies with the pathetic way the team played this year. The way GG played them didn't help either. You can't expect one of them to spend game after game sitting on the bench and then ask them to stand on their head and steal games like Smith did. They have to get game experience over a number of games, not a game every once in a while.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Teroy

I have no idea how we evaluate Rittich or Gillies with the pathetic way the team played this year. The way GG played them didn't help either. You can't expect one of them to spend game after game sitting on the bench and then ask them to stand on their head and steal games like Smith did. They have to get game experience over a number of games, not a game every once in a while.

The way I see it, you can't let a goalie steal games from the opposition on most night. It has to be the team in front that does most of the work since there are 4 forward lines and 4 d-lines. Kind of stupid to solely rely on one or two positions to bail the team out on a nightly basis. It's been a status quo for this team since Kipper came in and this mentality has to stop in order for this team to succeed.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by CSharp

The way I see it, you can't let a goalie steal games from the opposition on most night. It has to be the team in front that does most of the work since there are 4 forward lines and 4 d-lines. Kind of stupid to solely rely on one or two positions to bail the team out on a nightly basis. It's been a status quo for this team since Kipper came in and this mentality has to stop in order for this team to succeed.

I would agree with this.

I actually see merit in the old Detroit and Chicago idea that you don’t want to spend more than a couple of million on a goalie. Osgood, Niemi, Crawford - these guys aren’t Patrick Roy or Dominik Hasek

Smith is fine but the game in front of him has a lot of improvement to be made

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I would agree with this.

I actually see merit in the old Detroit and Chicago idea that you don’t want to spend more than a couple of million on a goalie. Osgood, Niemi, Crawford - these guys aren’t Patrick Roy or Dominik Hasek

Smith is fine but the game in front of him has a lot of improvement to be made

Yep so all the Flames need is Toews/Kane/Keith and Seabrook or Datsyuk/Zetterbeg/Lidstrom/Rafalaski

and so far they have Gaudreau.... easier to get a goalie.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The Flames are exactly as good as their record. That’s the point. They have the potential to be better. Even the coach seemed to know this and referred to it before the stick toss.

As an aside, I hope that this idea about injuries does not somehow end up being used as a major part of the narrative to excuse or save this awful coach

They were hanging in until the trade deadline with the one the lowest man-games lost in the league.

Even now they are 23rd in the league in ,cap $ lost to injuries

Vancouver could make the case that their over 10M of injured cap space would have taken them out of playoff contention.