What ails the Flames?

[CF84]

It's the jersey.

The team thought they would be playing in an amazing retro jersey this year and still haven't fully recovered from the disappointment.

Tkachuk likes the new jersey though.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Boring teams are sometimes SC worthy. See the Devils.

'Boring and successful' is a whole other animal from 'boring and bad.'

If the Flames were terribly boring but won a Cup I think people would be significantly more forgiving than being boring and missing the playoffs.

Thats just....well thats just the Jacques Lemaire Minnesota Wild.

It almost lost Minnesota their second team.

[Badgers Nose]

The rebuild was fun up to GG.

I’d bite my tongue if they were a powerhouse, but they are just as bad without the fun.

I’ve said it many times; this is entertainment. They can’t control the result, they can control the entertainment value though.

I guess the other thing that ails us is no cheerleaders and not enough pyrotechnics.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Only one actual good offensive player. Assuming you mean Gaudreau. Tkachuk is already in the conversation to be considered as valuable as Gaudreau. Monahan has 29 and Ferland has 20. Jankowksi has 11 as a rookie. Sure we’re not Tampa but saying only one good offensive player is a stretch. Look at what kind of offensive production Backlund provided last year.



Setting the goal posts right at the line after Gaudreau, Ferland, Kulak, and Jankowski were drafted and before we see what we truly have in Kylington, Andersson, Fox, Valimaki, Dube, Mangiapane, Gillies, and Parsons.

Monahan can finish but he cannot be relied upon to drive a line, especially a first line. Perhaps it is GG's system but Monahan has never taken over a game this year. Gaudreau takes over games and uses Monahan to put pucks in. He is a very good player but I believe Backlund and Tkachuk coould generate more offense than him if given the same opportunity.

Ferland is a good player too but this will almost surely be his career season, and Janko is too old to get a lot better than he is. The #1c in waiting aura is definitely not there anymore.

I set the post before Kulak and Janko were drafted. They're both NHLers but not even close to being impact guys. The 2013 draft was a total failure (though the other players available are not world beaters), 2014 was awful.

2015, 2016, 2017 look alright, but none of the Flames drafted there are looking like impact guys. Maybe Andersson and Valimaki., but knowing the Flames I'm not liking their odds.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Boring teams are sometimes SC worthy. See the Devils.

I'm not on the team. I'm just watching.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Monahan can finish but he cannot be relied upon to drive a line, especially a first line. Perhaps it is GG's system but Monahan has never taken over a game this year. Gaudreau takes over games and uses Monahan to put pucks in. He is a very good player but I believe Backlund and Tkachuk coould generate more offense than him if given the same opportunity.

Ferland is a good player too but this will almost surely be his career season, and Janko is too old to get a lot better than he is. The #1c in waiting aura is definitely not there anymore.

I set the post before Kulak and Jankowski were drafted. They're both NHLers but not even close to being impact guys. The 2013 draft was a total failure (though the other players available are not world beaters), 2014 was awful.

2015, 2016, 2017 look alright, but none of the Flames drafted there are looking like impact guys. Maybe Andersson and Valimaki., but knowing the Flames I'm not liking their odds.

So Monahan is a very good player now, mostly just offensive output, but before he wasn't a good offensive player?

Jankowski is too old to get better? Ummm, he's a 23 year old rookie.

Ferland is definitely post-apex at 25.

Kulak and Jankowski are both rookies. Not every 'impact' player in the league was so in their rookie season.

Hopefully we can trade all of our non impact players leaving us with just Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Giordano. Then we can perhaps draft some impact guys in the next few drafts. That'll fix the ails.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Hopefully we can trade all of our non impact players leaving us with just Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Giordano. Then we can perhaps draft some impact guys in the next few drafts. That'll fix the ails.

I know you’re being smarmy and sarcastic but I’m sure I’m not the only one who would be ok with this plan. I’d even put Gio on the table if the price was right.

Everything about this franchise and its 30-year reign of suck has to be critically evaluated, including the players who are emblematic of its “ok, but not great” culture.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Corral

It bothers me this season that they lost to bottom feeders at home - most recently yesterday. It bothered me more how many posters on CP shrugged those losses off in January as nothing to worry about .... lots of games left ... blah blah blah ... and it bothers me to think that the Flames thought likewise.

Do something to change this mentality.

I was one that heard you when you brought it up before and I do agree, the players in so many ways dictated the outcome. These guys are not playing for the coach, which is the reason I doubt they win any games against the oilers this season. This is not a team that appears to be playing for each other and the coach.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I know you’re being smarmy and sarcastic but I’m sure I’m not the only one who would be ok with this plan. I’d even put Gio on the table if the price was right.

Everything about this franchise and its 30-year reign of suck has to be critically evaluated, including the players who are emblematic of its “ok, but not great” culture.

There was a break during the Darryl Sutter era when he said outright that "Good is not good enough". His mentality seemed to work its way down throughout the team.

The country-club atmosphere returned pretty quickly after Sutter left. I am not saying Sutter wasn't without his faults, but he certainly had some strengths that I think are now missing at the top.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I know you’re being smarmy and sarcastic but I’m sure I’m not the only one who would be ok with this plan. I’d even put Gio on the table if the price was right.

Everything about this franchise and its 30-year reign of suck has to be critically evaluated, including the players who are emblematic of its “ok, but not great” culture.

I'd be curious too what this team could look like if you set Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Jankowski, Hamilton, and Hamonic aside and moved everyone else for the best haul you could. Keeping 2 of our 3 young goalies and the rest of our prospects as well. Would we be on a better path? Perhaps.

[burnitdown]

IMO, the problem stems from constantly using the Oilers as a measuring stick. They've been absolutely brutal for 20 years but we feel successful even if we miss the playoffs cause we finished better than their group of flashy first round picks. If that silver lining didn't exist, I think fan frustration would have boiled over years ago with constantly being a bubble team and we wouldn't be so accepting of mediocrity.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A decent run and gun roster....

.... trying to grind out pseudo-physical wins for a stubborn coach trying to appease a pseudo-Modern GM who pays lip service to what works and then acts the opposite as he attempts to appease a Neanderthal POHO who is out of touch with the game while trying to appease a fanbase that is out of touch with what a winning team looks due to the exaggerated makeup of one team in one run over a decade ago while enabling an ownership group that wouldn't sacrifice a season or two of asset building if it meant a slight off chance of the revenue of two home playoff games.

... But mostly the stubborn coach.

Agree with everything except the make-up of 2004 Flames. That was a very fast team, widely considered one of the fastest in the NHL. It was also very deep, that bottom six would destroy current bottom six. I mean Yelle would eat Janko for breakfast and the footrace between Lombardi and Stajan would look embarrassing.

Then after the lockout they had become getting more and more top-heavy and slow.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Agree with everything except the make-up of 2004 Flames. That was a very fast team, widely considered one of the fastest in the NHL. It was also very deep, that bottom six would destroy current bottom six. I mean Yelle would eat Janko for breakfast and the footrace between Lombardi and Stajan would look embarrassing.

Then after the lockout they had become getting more and more top-heavy and slow.

Lombardi was incredibly fast that is hardly a fair comparison...Stajan had a far better NHL career. Sure Lombardi in his absolute prime is better than Stajan now. Yelle had 4 goals in 03-04 I think you are remember things with rose colored glasses.

Calgary had the best goalie and best forward in the world at that time...they drug a bunch of scrubs within an inch (or less) of the cup.

That being said Calgary could use some speed in the bottom six for sure

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lombardi was incredibly fast that is hardly a fair comparison...Stajan had a far better NHL career. Sure Lombardi in his absolute prime is better than Stajan now. Yelle had 4 goals in 03-04 I think you are remember things with rose colored glasses.

Calgary had the best goalie and best forward in the world at that time...they drug a bunch of scrubs within an inch (or less) of the cup.

That being said Calgary could use some speed in the bottom six for sure

Agreed, our fastest bottom 6 player was scratched the last 2 games. Puzzling.

Edit: not that it would have tipped the scales but this team needs more youth, skill, energy and speed in the bottom 6 and they have a player that checks 3 of those boxes

[blender]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Agree with everything except the make-up of 2004 Flames. That was a very fast team, widely considered one of the fastest in the NHL. It was also very deep, that bottom six would destroy current bottom six. I mean Yelle would eat Janko for breakfast and the footrace between Lombardi and Stajan would look embarrassing.

Then after the lockout they had become getting more and more top-heavy and slow.

Golden Knight's Remind me of 2004 Flames

[wired]

The coach has lost the team.
The best players on the team, are not playing better than the 3rd line players. (IMO)
Sit the players that do not show the desire to compete in every game.(JG and Money included)
Never play Stajan again.
It seems no team in the league is worried about playing the Flames, and that is not ok.

[memphusk]

That's the biggest thing. Opposing teams seem to have nothing to be worried about when playing Calgary. It really seems that they do nothing overly well.

[JohnnyB]

People pointing out that the Flames had scrubs in 03-04 as a criticism are missing the relevance of that. There were a bunch of players on that team who not only came out of nowhere that year to fill in and play significant roles but also moved on into higher roles with other teams than ever would have been expected previously. That is a sign of a well-managed and well-lead group, which they were with Sutter. A couple of players were good before Sutter showed up, but a lot of guys learned to be NHL players through being on that team. Good players were also pushed to achieve their greatest potential. Good leadership can do that. Flames are really missing that now in the coaching.

[BigBCalgary]

Coaching/leadership.

[calgarygringo]

I ranted in the other thread we only have a mediocre team on the best nights so people should not complain much other than lately the even what we have doesn't come out for 60 minutes of hockey.
We have a weak bottom 6 as was already suggested, defense is mediocre and we have no snipers at the top that you can put out there to fire pucks into the net.
Until this team shores up the bottom half of the front and defense and finds a couple of real shooters instead of all these cast offs he keeps picking up this team will be nothing better than a maybe playoff team at best.