Ontario's Patrick Brown Steps Down

[GGG]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

That's her version of events. I feel like being alone with someone in their bedroom and them making a move on you isn't totally crazy. I mean how many bedrooms do you go into when you are at people's houses?

ANd of course if she didn't stop it he was going to have sex with her, that's the point. Once she said she wasn't into it, he stopped and took her home. This is normal.

I would say there are a few issues.

Was she drunk beyond the point she could give informed consent. If so this is sexual assault.

The absense of objection is not the same as consent so the lack of her objecting leading to sex would not necessarily be consensual sex. This is where things get muddy though and relying on non-verbal cues especially with alcohol involved becomes dangerous.

If she is not drunk beyond the point of informed consent it is most certainly harassment/enough to get you fired as she is her boss.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by GGG

I would say there are a few issues.

Was she drunk beyond the point she could give informed consent. If so this is sexual assault.

The absense of objection is not the same as consent so the lack of her objecting leading to sex would not necessarily be consensual sex. This is where things get muddy though and relying on non-verbal cues especially with alcohol involved becomes dangerous.

If she is not drunk beyond the point of informed consent it is most certainly harassment/enough to get you fired as she is her boss.

This is why I said this was her version of events. Too bombed to consent (no proof, could be problematic), non-verbal queues (very difficult to read, but again, could be problematic).

See my post like 2/3 posts above, I said, this is totally inappropriate as her boss, my response was besides that it may not be problematic.

[starseed]

I'm not going to vote for Wynne, but she's hardly run the economy into the ground. It is humming along quite well considering the headwinds. They almost eliminated the once massive provincial deficit.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

That's her version of events. I feel like being alone with someone in their bedroom and them making a move on you isn't totally crazy. I mean how many bedrooms do you go into when you are at people's houses?

ANd of course if she didn't stop it he was going to have sex with her, that's the point. Once she said she wasn't into it, he stopped and took her home. This is normal.

She specifically went in to the bedroom with another person because Brown invited them both in there to look at photos of his vacation.

If she went alone, sure, there’s a little bit of “what did you expect,” but if someone invites a couple people into their room to check out some vacation pictures, my first thought isn’t “oh, this dude wants to #### for sure.”

It is sort of totally crazy, to me. I don’t know what part of putting yourself on an employee once you’ve cornered them alone based on non-sexual circumstances isnt sort of crazy.

It’s not normal. Stopping when she said to stop means he’s not a rapist. That doesn’t mean he isn’t predatory.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GGG

Was she drunk beyond the point she could give informed consent. If so this is sexual assault.

If you're sober enough to say no you're probably sober enough to say yes.

[Parallex]

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BREAKING: The rot in the Ontario PC Party is so bad, says interim Vic Fedeli, that he will not seek the leadership & instead focus on cleaning it up. #onpoli #pcpo

I gotta say... "The Rot in our Party is so Bad" is a heckava campaign slogan.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SebC

If you're sober enough to say no you're probably sober enough to say yes.

I think I would disagree here. You don't need to be passed out to be unable to give consent. You can be in and out of consciousness and still tell someone no / resist in a state that certainly wouldn't be suitable to give consent.

Think about trying to get your super drunk friend to leave the bar and in a cab. He certainly isn't cabable of making any kind of decision for himself but he sure can say no and resist leaving.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I wonder if Christine Elliott might be another name to consider. She was 2nd to Brown during the last leadership race and had a number of caucus endorsements. Lawyer by background and currently Ontario's Patient Ombudsman.

You may also recall the name because she is also the widow of Jim Flaherty.

Elliott has announced an intention to run. Good.

I think she is the candidate to steamroll overtop of Wynne's Liberals