Families fret over likely Supreme Court challenges of consecutive murder sentences

[FLAME ENVY]

Originally Posted by MBates

I am continually frustrated by this misunderstanding of Canadian sentencing. In Canada a life sentence means you are serving your sentence for literally every single second of your natural life until you die.

There is no 25 years = Life. It's not a real thing.

In the case of a first degree murder, you are not ellligible to be considered for parole (continuing to serve your sentence but with whatever measure of conditional freedom the parole board grants) until you have served at least 25 years.

As for never allowing parole, it is an easy idea to embrace superficially. But right now there are murderers in minimum security jails across Canada with no perimeter fences, who drive vehicles and have access to sharp tools and keys to various segments of the prison. They could escape if they wanted. They could murder other inmates or guards easily. They don't because they are not supposed to. They are trusted to a level exceeding that which is deserved by many people you will ride public transit with tomorrow morning.

I think if many people considered how little difference there can be between being in prison or being on parole for many lifers after they have a quarter century in the system, then they might reconsider the one size fits all 'no parole ever' position.

From a criminal defence lawyer, of course you're going to have this perspective. So why not get rid of the 'life' part of First/Second degree murder sentencing within the criminal code and simply state 10 or 25 (or whatever the minimums are) years before parole eligibility? A life sentence should mean a life sentence if that's what you're going to call it. Many other countries including our neighbours to the south call a life sentence as such. There is no chance of parole, you die in prison.


Because an inmate serving a murder sentence does not harm another inmate or guard even though they could means they should be trusted to be amongst the general populace? Murdering a guard or inmate means more time in prison and the less likely chance they are paroled, would that not seem more plausible reasoning as to why that would be?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by MBates

I am continually frustrated by this misunderstanding of Canadian sentencing. In Canada a life sentence means you are serving your sentence for literally every single second of your natural life until you die.

There is no 25 years = Life. It's not a real thing.

In the case of a first degree murder, you are not ellligible to be considered for parole (continuing to serve your sentence but with whatever measure of conditional freedom the parole board grants) until you have served at least 25 years.

As for never allowing parole, it is an easy idea to embrace superficially. But right now there are murderers in minimum security jails across Canada with no perimeter fences, who drive vehicles and have access to sharp tools and keys to various segments of the prison. They could escape if they wanted. They could murder other inmates or guards easily. They don't because they are not supposed to. They are trusted to a level exceeding that which is deserved by many people you will ride public transit with tomorrow morning.

I think if many people considered how little difference there can be between being in prison or being on parole for many lifers after they have a quarter century in the system, then they might reconsider the one size fits all 'no parole ever' position.

I don't want to see no parole, but I do wish it was "no body, no parole". I think that many of the victims families this is the last thing that a convicted murderer can continue to hold over them.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by FLAME ENVY

From a criminal defence lawyer, of course you're going to have this perspective. So why not get rid of the 'life' part of First/Second degree murder sentencing within the criminal code and simply state 10 or 25 (or whatever the minimums are) years before parole eligibility? A life sentence should mean a life sentence if that's what you're going to call it. Many other countries including our neighbours to the south call a life sentence as such. There is no chance of parole, you die in prison.

Because the sentence isn't "25 years until parole eligibility", the sentence is "life in prison".

[FLAME ENVY]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Because the sentence isn't "25 years until parole eligibility", the sentence is "life in prison".

Then why is a first degree murder conviction almost always stated as 'life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years'? According to the criminal code there is 25 years of parole ineligibility with a first degree murder conviction. Does that not mean that there is a chance to have a parole hearing after 25 years ?

[MBates]

Originally Posted by FLAME ENVY

From a criminal defence lawyer, of course you're going to have this perspective. So why not get rid of the 'life' part of First/Second degree murder sentencing within the criminal code and simply state 10 or 25 (or whatever the minimums are) years before parole eligibility? A life sentence should mean a life sentence if that's what you're going to call it. Many other countries including our neighbours to the south call a life sentence as such. There is no chance of parole, you die in prison.


Because an inmate serving a murder sentence does not harm another inmate or guard even though they could means they should be trusted to be amongst the general populace? Murdering a guard or inmate means more time in prison and the less likely chance they are paroled, would that not seem more plausible reasoning as to why that would be?

I am not advocating from a perspective when I correct people's erroneous belief that a Canadian life sentence is not for your whole life. It is. It is an objective fact.

All sentenced offenders have to occupy space somewhere while serving the sentence for the rest of their life.

Whether you occupy space in solitary confinement in a maximum security facility or have an opportunity to occupy space in some form of conditional community release (or anything in between) depends on a myriad of factors. All murderers are not equal (either in terms of their crimes or in terms of their post-crime conduct).

Parole is in no way shape or form the end of a life sentence. Nor is it handed out gratuitously and carelessly by the National Parole Board. On almost any basis (not reasonable and probable grounds as would be required to lay a charge) a 'lifer' on parole can be suspended and put back in prison.

The 10 year / 25 year numbers are what Parliament has set as the period you must serve for 2nd degree / 1st degree murder before you can even ask for parole. You can legitimately argue those numbers are not high enough and that you would like Parliament to raise them. But saying a life sentence = 25 years is wrong.

As to countries who exclude any chance of parole as their chosen way of administering a life sentence, feel free to research how many of them have lower per capita homicide rates than Canada. Maybe some do.

I would recommend though that you read and consider perspectives like this one on this topic before making up your mind:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle23308420/

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FLAME ENVY

From a criminal defence lawyer, of course you're going to have this perspective. So why not get rid of the 'life' part of First/Second degree murder sentencing within the criminal code and simply state 10 or 25 (or whatever the minimums are) years before parole eligibility? A life sentence should mean a life sentence if that's what you're going to call it. Many other countries including our neighbours to the south call a life sentence as such. There is no chance of parole, you die in prison.

I think the idea is that if you're going to spend your whole life in prison, with no chance of parole, then why not shank a guard or another prisoner? What have you got to lose?

And I'd be hesitant to hold up the U.S. penal system as a model of anything other than dysfunction.