Math performance dramatically lower at CBE schools vs. CCSD schools

[Slava]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Someone's been studying.....

In my opinion the biggest issue facing school performance in the N.E. is the combination of English not being the first language, lower incomes, and lower parent involvement.

The three combined really make it difficult for kids to learn. Regardless of how much funding you have per student, if there are language barriers and minimal to zero support at home, that kid doesn't have much of a chance.

lol, trying to make sure the victory lap results in victory!

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by troutman

My teacher friend thinks this may have to do with the number of "inquiry" schools in CBE.

Ex. http://schools.cbe.ab.ca/b143/inquiry.htm

Yes. This.

Students essentially get to direct their learning.

I'm all for encouraging kids to learn more about what interests them, but there has to be a baseline curriculum that is mandatory.

Also, teacher's have to be able to fail kids again. There are zero consequences to a kid not performing up to grade level. The system is way too soft.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Why is there a Catholic School board again? Oh right, so they can indoctrinate children into their freakish belief system.

Higher math scores. Believes in magic zombies.

I'm an atheist and I went to Catholic school. I was prepared for a fight and was surprised that there is basically no indoctrination. I think I was forced to go to mass a couple of times but I've always found that ritual to be interesting, not indoctrinating. I was never forced to take communion or anything.

Originally Posted by curves2000

3) How often have you gone to the bank, asked to withdraw $200 in cash from the teller and they proceed to count out 20,40,60,80,100,120....... instead of just counting out 10 bills @ $20 each? I am a banker and this drives me nuts!

Hold on there cowboy. The proper way to count out money, is and always has been to say 20, 40, 60, 80, ONE (as in hundred), 20, 40, 60, 80, TWO. And so on and so forth.

Typically they also go from larger to smaller bills.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Catholic school turned me into an athiest.

Got 100% on my Math diploma on the way.

Same here.

Around grade 8 is when I just realized that these things they're pushing in religion class are a total joke. Wrote that in my religion final in the essay part and my religion teacher told me she cried when she read that. Felt bad.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I'm an atheist and I went to Catholic school. I was prepared for a fight and was surprised that there is basically no indoctrination. I think I was forced to go to mass a couple of times but I've always found that ritual to be interesting, not indoctrinating. I was never forced to take communion or anything.



Hold on there cowboy. The proper way to count out money, is and always has been to say (as in hundred), 20, 40, 60, 80, TWO. And so on and so forth.

Typically they also go from larger to smaller bills.

I worked as a bank teller as a summer job in the past. We were trained to count money 20, 40, 60, 80, ONE etc etc. Led to less mistakes.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Kids are soft these days and can't handle a little failure.

My kids are all in CBE. Two philosophies drive me nuts;

- won't fail. I mean what good is it to push a kid through the system. If a child needs to take a step back and get a handle on fundamentals before going forward, that's not a bad thing
- no homework. WTF? Kids don't need 4 hours a night, but going to zero isn't finding a balance. Besides, checking/helping kids with homework was a great way to gauge their progress.

end old man "kids have it too easy" rant....

[GirlySports]

i think CBE is now just free daycare

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

My kids are all in CBE. Two philosophies drive me nuts;

- won't fail. I mean what good is it to push a kid through the system. If a child needs to take a step back and get a handle on fundamentals before going forward, that's not a bad thing
- no homework. WTF? Kids don't need 4 hours a night, but going to zero isn't finding a balance. Besides, checking/helping kids with homework was a great way to gauge their progress.

end old man "kids have it too easy" rant....

Really? There's no homework now? That seems odd. No book reports or self study. Or running through the work you did today to make sure that you actually understand it and are retaining it?

That seems stupid. I would assume that the days are at least twice as productive as they were in my day.

[CliffFletcher]

Kids in the CBE are still assigned regular home reading, and the occasional writing project. I'm glad they aren't giving kids in grade 4 a bunch of busy work to do at home. My experience is with kids in elementary school. Presumably they start getting homework in junior high, which sounds about right to me.

[GGG]

To me rote learning of basic math is important if you ever want to be successful in a stem career. Understanding why 6*4 is 24 is important and should be taught but knowing it instantly without thinking or making errors is critical for the next levels of Math.

You don't have time in advanced levels of math to evaluate what 6*4 is. The only way to get that speed is memorization of the underlying facts. This extends to trig identities and basic calculus operations.

Without being able to do the easy stuff with speed you can't learn the physics and chemistry that relies on the easy stuff.

I give my kids extra Math homework to increase speed and accuracy. Not much but 15 minutes of questions helps greatly at increasing speed, accuracy, and confidence.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

To me rote learning of basic math is important if you ever want to be successful in a stem career. Understanding why 6*4 is 24 is important and should be taught but knowing it instantly without thinking or making errors is critical for the next levels of Math.

You don't have time in advanced levels of math to evaluate what 6*4 is. The only way to get that speed is memorization of the underlying facts. This extends to trig identities and basic calculus operations.

Without being able to do the easy stuff with speed you can't learn the physics and chemistry that relies on the easy stuff.

I give my kids extra Math homework to increase speed and accuracy. Not much but 15 minutes of questions helps greatly at increasing speed, accuracy, and confidence.

Right, and kids are doing this stuff. They are learning things like times tables and they are learning pertinent things. It's funny though...when kids are doing these things and not doing them well its a combination of "they system is failing" or in other cases "the A student works for the C student, so don't worry about it, son" kind of thing. I did math at home because when I switched schools they were already well into multiplication and I had never seen it before. Now the attitude on the part of parents is more "well we can't do that because he has piano/hockey/soccer/etc. every night"

Parents are either unwilling or unable to grind their kids and make them do things they don't want to. And then we find ways to rationalize it by saying that these extra-curricular activities are just as important, or that they don't really need to know that anyway, or they can improve their marks "when it matters" in high school or whatever.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

i think CBE is now just free daycare

My kid went to school for maybe all of 4 days in all of January, and she wasnt skipping.

I'm surprised that its a 'Catholic vs Public' board debate actually.

Combining the two boards isnt the issue, but once again, we are not getting good value for our dollars, but we cant change anything or our kids will turn into idiots, right?

This system is broken and in dire need of change. And we're not even discussing pensions yet.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

Right, and kids are doing this stuff. They are learning things like times tables and they are learning pertinent things. It's funny though...when kids are doing these things and not doing them well its a combination of "they system is failing" or in other cases "the A student works for the C student, so don't worry about it, son" kind of thing. I did math at home because when I switched schools they were already well into multiplication and I had never seen it before. Now the attitude on the part of parents is more "well we can't do that because he has piano/hockey/soccer/etc. every night"

Parents are either unwilling or unable to grind their kids and make them do things they don't want to. And then we find ways to rationalize it by saying that these extra-curricular activities are just as important, or that they don't really need to know that anyway, or they can improve their marks "when it matters" in high school or whatever.

I find it's not being assigned in schools as homework. 15-20 minutes of home reading is assigned every night and the completion of it logged. A similar work sheet should also be assigned with math problems starting in grade one. This does not happen and is left to the parent.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I don't have any children and so I can't speak to anything going on in the current CBE system regarding math other than what I read about in the news but I can speak to real life examples. We as a society are getting worse at some of the most basic life experiences when it comes to basic arithmetic.

1) How many people need to bust out the smartphone for the "tip calculator" app? I guess figuring out what a 10, 15 or 20% tip on a $50 bar tab is a big challenge?

2) I can't tell you how often either cashiers or customers struggle with getting change when paying cash at a store. An item turns out to be $12 and you give them $22 hoping to get a $10 bill back and all you get is a blank stare. Most people resort to what the screen tells them. What about people in line who try to be "smart" by offering up more change that only results in more coins for them?

3) How often have you gone to the bank, asked to withdraw $200 in cash from the teller and they proceed to count out 20,40,60,80,100,120....... instead of just counting out 10 bills @ $20 each? I am a banker and this drives me nuts!

4) How many people have struggles with doing a quick calculation on a sale of merchandise? How much is a 30% discount on a $75 item?

I will be the first to admit than I am not some A+ math whiz despite being in finance but some of the basic, everyday tasks in life and a lot of people are really struggling and it isn't funny. Alberta used to be one of the top math, science and engineering places in the country which reflected well in our energy sector employment and innovation.

I hate to say it but seniors who are older and came from a different time in history, when they say all this "tech stuff" is going to make us dumb, I am starting to see it myself. One of the biggest things I have noticed is my penmanship declining rapidly. I always had excellent penmanship for a male and lately I look down when I write something down the odd time and it looks to me like I just polished off a bottle of gin, trying to write down something of importance.

Sorry about the long post, rant over!

You are forgetting about the people who are receiving the money. Hopefully the bank employee knows that 10 x $20 = $200. However, many receiving the money actually want it counted out exactly as the bank tellers do.

Your rant however is 100% true. I am a former Math teacher and what I see going on in the Math Curriculum today makes me grind my teeth and pull out my hair...especially when children (and teachers) are told they are not supposed to do Math the "old-fashioned way".

We all learn differently and I always told my students there is more than one way to get from point A to point B.

Most students can get from point A to point B relatively easily if you teach and show them a number of ways to do so. And while there might be one or two timely ways to get from point A to point B, some students only learn the concept by going theough an extra step or two to get from point A to point B.

That is where a good teacher really shines and that is why I think it is very important to have teachers who are specialized in their fields teaching those concepts, particularly from Grades 5 and up.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Locke

My kid went to school for maybe all of 4 days in all of January, and she wasnt skipping.

I'm surprised that its a 'Catholic vs Public' board debate actually.

Combining the two boards isnt the issue, but once again, we are not getting good value for our dollars, but we cant change anything or our kids will turn into idiots, right?

This system is broken and in dire need of change. And we're not even discussing pensions yet.

Well as per the OP, we are getting good value for our dollars, if your paying CCSD taxes and your kid is in the CCSD:

"At least $110 million more would reach CBE classrooms each year if CBE administrative spending was in line with that of the CCSD."

Why wreck the whole thing? Perhaps it is what it is, and just a better more efficient system.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

i think CBE is now just free daycare

[jeffporfirio]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Why is there a Catholic School board again? Oh right, so they can indoctrinate children into their freakish belief system.

Higher math scores. Believes in magic zombies.

Quite the contrary, I've found zero indoctrination, in fact, devout Catholic families actually find the Religous Ed "weak".

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by redforever

You are forgetting about the people who are receiving the money. Hopefully the bank employee knows that 10 x $20 = $200. However, many receiving the money actually want it counted out exactly as the bank tellers do.

Your rant however is 100% true. I am a former Math teacher and what I see going on in the Math Curriculum today makes me grind my teeth and pull out my hair...especially when children (and teachers) are told they are not supposed to do Math the "old-fashioned way".

We all learn differently and I always told my students there is more than one way to get from point A to point B.

Most students can get from point A to point B relatively easily if you teach and show them a number of ways to do so. And while there might be one or two timely ways to get from point A to point B, some students only learn the concept by going theough an extra step or two to get from point A to point B.

That is where a good teacher really shines and that is why I think it is very important to have teachers who are specialized in their fields teaching those concepts, particularly from Grades 5 and up.

I guess I should have clarified about the counting of money at the bank. When I was a bank teller, I worked at a branch that had a very high networth, older clientele. There was a lot of cash withdraws from the tellers and I found a lot of the clients were appreciative of the basic counting of cash. If somebody was withdrawing $3000 in cash, all in $100 bills, the need to actually say "twenty-two hundred, twenty-three hundred, twenty-four hundred......." all the way up isn't there when its more efficient to count the number of bills and confirm the total amount if it's the same denomination.

It was just a little thing I came across that I got positive feedback on from clients, I suspect because that is the way I like my cash counted as well.

[GirlySports]

I'm all for exploring new and potentially better ways to teach math.

What pisses me off though is when they get overly caught up in the process that a kid uses to get the right answer. As anyone knows, there are often many ways to correctly do math. Don't tell a kid that HAVE to do it a different way when they've found one that works for them. That just signals to me that the teacher doesn't truly understand what they are teaching and are robotically following some curriculum.

If a kid gets a concept (addition, multiplication, etc), say great and move on. Don't force them to learn five other ways to do the same damn thing.

So the bank teller thing doesn't bother me as much. Whether they count $300 in 20s by going 20, 40, 60 or 1,2,3 as long as I get the right amount.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I'm an atheist and I went to Catholic school. I was prepared for a fight and was surprised that there is basically no indoctrination. I think I was forced to go to mass a couple of times but I've always found that ritual to be interesting, not indoctrinating. I was never forced to take communion or anything.

This. I wasn't an atheist back then (I still think I'm closer to agnostic than atheist presently), but it's funny what the perceived view is of a Catholic school by someone who was never enrolled in one, versus what it actually is. Aside from one religion class per year and saying the Lord's Prayer in the morning instead of O Canada (and of course celebration stuff around Christmas and Lent), you wouldn't even notice the difference.

We had a public junior high across from our Catholic junior high and it was in a bit of a tougher area of town, once in a while on the walk home, the public kids would try to start crap and chirp us; "hey God-boys, gonna go home and pray to your bible?" Umm my family doesn't even own a bible, nor have we EVER prayed at home before..hell my two best friends from that school weren't even baptised.