The Gilmour trade - 25 years later

[FlamesFan68]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

This trade still hurts.

Why didn't someone, anyone in the Flames office stand up and say "whoa stop, this is madness!"

It was bad enough more or less giving Gilmour away, but to also throw in Macoun was simply insult to injury.

All of the players going to Toronto in that trade were NHL calibre, except Manderville. Leeman was horrendous, and the rest coming back to Calgary were basically between NHL/AHL calibre. On top of all the players retiring after the cup win, it was the trade that put the Flames from elite level team to sub level. The worst trade in NHL history. People can compare a few 1 on 1 trades or 2 on 2, but a trade at this level hurt Calgary for years and years.

[Resolute 14]

"At this level"? For the size of it, the trade had all of three meaningful players in it: Gilmour, Macoun and Leeman. The only difference between this trade and the 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 deals mentioned is the amount of fluff attached - Nattress played 36 games for Toronto and was gone that summer. Wamsley played 13 more for the rest of his career. Manderville actually played about 100 games as a Leaf.

Not to discount Macoun's value, but this trade boiled down to Gilmour for Leeman. And while the utter failure that component turned out to be certainly set us back hard, I say it still validly compares to other 1 on 1/2 on 2 deals in terms of "worst trade ever".

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

The worst trade in NHL history. People can compare a few 1 on 1 trades or 2 on 2, but a trade at this level hurt Calgary for years and years.

And something like the Esposito trade didn't?

1968, the Blackhawks trade outspoken Esposito as well as Ken Hodge and Fred Stanfield to the Bruins for Gilles Marotte and Pit Martin.

Esposito immediately becomes an all-time great. He becomes the first player in league history to score 100 points in a season. He scores 126 points in 1969...the previous record was 97.

In 1971, Esposito sets an all-time league record with 152 points breaking his own previous 126 points. With the scoring of the 80's, it's easy to forget just how hard it use to be to break the 50 goal barrier. By 1970, there was only a single player in all of NHL history to score more than 50 goals in a season. That was Bobby Hull who had scored 58 (1969), 54 (1966) and 52 (1967). In 1971 Esposito scored 76. He annihilated the NHL all-time goal scoring record.

Okay, fine, but Esposito was only one player, that trade might not have had the same affect as the multi-players in the Gilmour trade.

1971 scoring leaders:

1. Esposito - 152 points
2. Orr - 139 points
3. Bucyk - 116 points
4. Hodge - 105 points
5. Hull - 96 points
6. Ullman - 85 points
7. Cashman - 79 points
8. McKenzie - 77 points
9. Stanfield - 76 points

The Bruins had acquired the 1st, 4th and 9th overall highest scoring players of the 1971 season in a single trade.

The Blackhawks lost to the Canadiens in the final that year...imagine if they had those three players? There's an incredible possibility that the Blackhawks lost out at an all-time great dynasty because of that trade.

[Vulcan]

Pit Martin wasn't a plug either although at the time, I thought the Hawks got burned. He was the Chicago team captain and an all star who also won the Masterton Trophy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_Martin

[Oling_Roachinen]

Yeah, Hodge scored 742 in 748 after the trade (674 with the Bruins), Martin scored 699 in 871 after the trade (627 with the Hawks). I think it's fairly fair to call them a wash. Hodge was named to the First All-Star team twice, played in the All-Star game three times. Martin played four times, although never named to the team.

Still need to account for Esposito. He won the Art Ross five times. He lead the league in goal scoring for six consecutive years. He played in the All-Star game ten times. Named to the First Team six times, second team twice. He retired only behind Gordie Howe in goals and points.

And the Bruins were able to turn the aging Esposito into Jean Ratelle (more or less replacing Esposito's production) and Brad Park. Brad Park himself was an All-Star for the Bruins three more times and scored 417 points in 500 games for them as a defenseman.


Pretty much the 70S Bruins were built on Orr and that trade. They were President Trophy winners three times, lead their division 7, made it to the Stanley Cup finals four times and won the Stanley Cup twice in that decade.

For some perspective, Gilmour scored 452 in 393 games with the Leafs and less than 800 points after leaving the Flames. Esposito put up 1416 after the trade.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yeah, Hodge scored 742 in 748 after the trade (674 with the Bruins), Martin scored 699 in 871 after the trade (627 with the Hawks). I think it's fairly fair to call them a wash. Hodge was named to the First All-Star team twice, played in the All-Star game three times. Martin played four times, although never named to the team.

Still need to account for Esposito. He won the Art Ross five times. He lead the league in goal scoring for six consecutive years. He played in the All-Star game ten times. Named to the First Team six times, second team twice. He retired only behind Gordie Howe in goals and points.

And the Bruins were able to turn the aging Esposito into Jean Ratelle (more or less replacing Esposito's production) and Brad Park. Brad Park himself was an All-Star for the Bruins three more times and scored 417 points in 500 games for them as a defenseman.


Pretty much the 70S Bruins were built on Orr and that trade. They were President Trophy winners three times, lead their division 7, made it to the Stanley Cup finals four times and won the Stanley Cup twice in that decade.

Yeah the Rangers sure lost that one. Brad Park came as the replacement for Bobby Orr as well.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Some more perspective on the deal:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...59776-sun.html

"We weren't going to win another Cup with that team. (A trade) probably should have happened sooner. Instead we traded the wrong player."

As for the 10-player swap, Risebrough said: "It was probably a mistake. A smaller deal would have been better."

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/dou...-younger-self/

At the beginning of the ’91 season, you’re going to wake up in the morning at a hotel in San Jose and go to the bathroom. You’ll hear someone talking on the phone in the adjoining room. Then you’ll hear your name.

It’s your new general manager, Doug Risebrough. He’s talking about you.

Kid, flush the toilet and go back to bed. Don’t listen to what’s being said. Ignorance is bliss.

Don’t lay down on the floor with your ear to the door and listen in.

You’ve just been through an arbitration hearing with the team. You’ve been in a room with the lawyers. You know they don’t want to pay you. You know there’s animosity.

You know you and Risebrough didn’t get along when you played against one another.

What do you think he’s saying? Just go back to bed.

If you lay on the floor and listen, you’re going to hear some words that are going to really piss you off, and you’re going to do something you’ll regret.

“I want to trade Gilmour.”