Drunk Sunwing Airlines pilot passes out in cockpit with 100 passengers on board

[sparky69]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Looks like you've been doing some drinking of your own.

Well when in Rome.... I mean Mexico....

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by HarryH93

I think there need to be two for every flight. Some have three.

Depends on the aircraft type and airline. But generally speaking, yes, two is the minimum. You will never have only one pilot when on a commercial airliner...Uncle Bob and his Cessna is another story.

Narrowbody jets like the B737 and A320 on domestic flights will have two pilots. Large aircraft like the B747 and A380 require a three person flight crew, and in some cases, there can be as many as four crewmembers.

Long haul flights over the ocean will always have a full relief crew on board, and they fly in shifts while the other crew sleeps.

Like the cop quoted in the article said, the chance of the aircraft even leaving the gate with a drunk pilot is slim to none. Simply prepping the aircraft for departure is a two person job, and if one pilot is drunk (or even just sleepy), the other will notice it immediately, and that plane won't be going anywhere.

But it would be an understatement to say that buddy's flying days, at least in Canada, are over.

He's probably already been suspended, if not fired, from Sunwing Airlines. Transport Canada is going to tear up his license, ban him from ever flying in Canadian skies again, and once he's officially terminated from Sunwing, Citizenship & Immigration is going to revoke his work visa and have him deported.

After all that, if he still has a pilot's license of any kind, he'll never get a job as a pilot in any respectable first world nation, once they see his Canadian record.

[Locke]

I just dont understand how someone could get that drunk and think they could still fly an airplane. Or do anything for that matter. Usually as the drinks are coming the thought of: 'I have to go to work soon, so no' arrives in people's minds.

[puckedoff]

^ I don't get how someone could sit for an 8 hour flight and not drink. Guess I am not cut out to be a pilot.

[Jbo]

Of course it was a Sunwing. Seriously the amount of crap people put up with from that airline because of low fares and all inclusive is crazy.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Don't those things basically fly themselves?

Someone has to push the take off, fly, then land buttons.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Someone has to push the take off, fly, then land buttons.

That's only for Airbus planes.

(Only avgeeks will get that one )

[Bigtime]

Airbus? More like Scarebus amirite?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

I just dont understand how someone could get that drunk and think they could still fly an airplane. Or do anything for that matter. Usually as the drinks are coming the thought of: 'I have to go to work soon, so no' arrives in people's minds.

He was probably a captain. The captain can basically tell the co-pilot to do everything, and the co-pilot will do it. So he was probably banking on just sitting there and hoping no one would notice.

[cznTiburon]

Originally Posted by Acey

Yeah it's somewhat the job of CPS' media person who released the presser to clarify but at the end of the day it's really not a big deal. People are calling for his head, and (for once in Canada) the law is more restrictive than people have been led to believe, so no real harm done. Again, I'm not even sure CPS is allowed to directly charge people under the Aeronautics Act though I believe they did for some drone related thing. My understanding is that he blew somewhere in the vicinity of 0.25 (and that was 2 hours after CPS were called to the gate ) so they used .08 as a frame of reference but again a lot of people are understandably concerned because they've been led to believe that you are somehow permitted to fly a commercial aircraft as long as you're below .08

Sunwing's policy I'm pretty sure is nothing 12 hours prior; like a lot of airlines their personal policy is more restrictive than the Aeronautics Act. They'll be extremely careful with what they say because there was already tension in the industry about their hiring of so many foreign pilots.

Just wanted to point out on this discussion that while the Canadian Aviation Regulations don't mention the .08 limit, the Criminal Code does. Care and Control over .08 while operating a Motor Vehicle in the Criminal Code does include Aircraft which is likely why this is the charge they went with. From my understanding most Aviation Regs charges need to come in consultation with a crown and Transport Canada but with the infrequency of these instances these charges can be laid down the road.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

He was probably a captain. The captain can basically tell the co-pilot to do everything, and the co-pilot will do it. So he was probably banking on just sitting there and hoping no one would notice.

This is very old school, though definitely still an issue in other parts of the world, like Asia and Africa. In western countries it has been largely eradicated. The First Officer is not just the Captains lacky, he is the Second in Command, and carries responsibility for safety of flight as well. If the FO willfully does anything that exposes the plane to undo risk, he would be responsible for that.

BTW, any modern airliner has a minimum crew requirement of 2. Additional crew are carried when augmentation is needed for longer flights.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

He was probably a captain. The captain can basically tell the co-pilot to do everything, and the co-pilot will do it. So he was probably banking on just sitting there and hoping no one would notice.

Under normal circumstances, at most airlines the two pilots alternate legs, or the captain will fly odd legs and the FO even legs, or the captain the first leg of the pairing, etc. They're both equally qualified to fly the plane.

However... on a 737 the "steering wheel" to taxi the plane while it's on the ground is only on the captain's side, so he always has to move the plane when it's on the ground.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

He was probably a captain. The captain can basically tell the co-pilot to do everything, and the co-pilot will do it. So he was probably banking on just sitting there and hoping no one would notice.

Either that, or he didn't want to get in #### with the airline for missing the flight. Captain or not, he may have figured he could just get on the plane, claimed he wasn't feeling well, and have the other pilot do all the work for him.

Regardless, while it is possible for one pilot to fly the plane by himself in an emergency, it's basically a two-person job.

One pilot flies the plane (and this isn't necessarily the Captain...in many cases, the Captain lets the F/O get more time as the 'pilot in command'), and the other handles the radios, and reads out the checklists.

So buddy gets on the plane, claims he's sleepy or has the flu, and then as they're going through their preflight checks, he passes out in his seat. At that point, the other pilot (whether Captain or F/O) realizes what's going on and calls it in.

So even if he was a senior Captain, he can't just tell the F/O to do all the work and take a nap. Like Ryan Coke said, the F/O has an equal responsibility to ensure the safety of the aircraft.

Bottom line...as I said, this guy's flying days (at least in any western nation) are over. He's going to lose his wings, perhaps go to jail, and after all that, he'll be kicked out of the country.

EDIT: Acey beat me to it. I forgot about the point that Acey made...this flight was going Calgary --> Regina --> Winnipeg --> Cancun. The F/O would not have flown the plane on every leg, all the way down to Mexico.

I don't know what this guy's plan was, maybe he wanted to have the other pilot fly the first leg to Regina, and then claim he was feeling sick, and get off the plane there. But that would have gotten him in more trouble compared to just calling in sick, or missing the flight from Calgary, because they would have sent him to a hospital to get checked out, and realized he was drunk.

I get the feeling that he didn't have a "plan" per se...he just knew he had to go to work, and in his drunk state, didn't realize that he was unfit to fly.

[Fuzz]

I'd imagine a totally plastered guy in a contained cockpit is going to be emitting some strong odours of booze as well. I don't think they'd need to do a pupil check to realize the guy is unfit to fly.

[Amethyst]

I think the mistake some people are making trying to figure this guy out, is assuming someone that drunk would have a plan that makes sense.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

I think the mistake some people are making trying to figure this guy out, is assuming someone that drunk would have a plan that makes sense.

That's sorta what I realized towards the end of my last post. He didn't really have a plan, or at least, not one that would make sense to any of us.

He could've gotten hammered, and realized "Ohhh shiiittzzzz, I gotta goezzz to workkk!!!"

[CliffFletcher]

So an expert was on the radio saying there are provisions around addiction that mean a pilot could keep their license after this sort of incident if they get treatment. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the tactic the pilot and his counsel take. Why wouldn't he?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So an expert was on the radio saying there are provisions around addiction that mean a pilot could keep their license after this sort of incident if they get treatment. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the tactic the pilot and his counsel take. Why wouldn't he?

Alcoholism is a disease that is eligible for disability and addiction treatment, so it makes sense.

Whether or not he'll use it as a cop out or he genuinely has a problem could be debated I guess. Such is the nature of our system. In order to make sure the people who really do have a mental illness get help, you have to be willing to accept that some people will scam the system.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So an expert was on the radio saying there are provisions around addiction that mean a pilot could keep their license after this sort of incident if they get treatment. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the tactic the pilot and his counsel take. Why wouldn't he?

Oh, of course he would. He's going to try and keep his license if at all possible.

But that being said, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he'd still need a job in order to keep his work permit. Without one, his work permit wouldn't be valid, and he can't stay in the country.

He might get a job with a smaller company, but after being fired by Sunwing, no one at AC or WS is going to go near him.

He might get a job flying bush planes up north...if he manages to keep his license. I don't think any of the larger charter operators (Transat, Canadian North, Skyservice, CanJet, Flair/NewLeaf, Enerjet, etc) are going to hire him...or at least, they'd be stupid to do so.

[Scrambler]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

Oh, of course he would. He's going to try and keep his license if at all possible.

But that being said, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he'd still need a job in order to keep his work permit. Without one, his work permit wouldn't be valid, and he can't stay in the country.

He might get a job with a smaller company, but after being fired by Sunwing, no one at AC or WS is going to go near him.

He might get a job flying bush planes up north...if he manages to keep his license. I don't think any of the larger charter operators (Transat, Canadian North, Skyservice, CanJet, Flair/NewLeaf, Enerjet, etc) are going to hire him...or at least, they'd be stupid to do so.

He is on a work visa, if he is convicted of a crime there is a good chance he will get deported and/or will not get a visa renewal, either of which case he won't be flying in Canada anytime again soon.