Sam Bennett vs. Matthew Tkatchuk

[Soliak]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Bennett for me easily. I love Tkachuk's game but Bennett is the total package. I think in his prime he is an 80-90 point C with a physical edge as well. I see Tkachuk as a guy who will slam 30 goals and hit around 65-70 points in his prime while being a physical force and able to irritate the other team to no end. Both will be super valuable to us but Bennett more so.

If Bennett turns out to be a 80-90 point C and Chucky ends up going 30/35 or 30/40 then the Flames are in an extremely strong position moving forward. I think you are overstating their chance of hitting such potential.

With Chucky I think it's not unrealistic to think his floor would be a 50 point winger, with him likely ending up a 60 point guy. If he does better then that with his physical play then we should be stoked.

Bennett on the other hand could end up maxing out as someone in the Duchene / Couture bunch of C's at his peak, which we shouldn't be too upset with. He has a lot of genuine excuses for some of his play this year but the fact he continues to try the 'move' and other similar #### instead of focusing on puck possession shows he has a long way to go and his hockey IQ is not as developed as some expected.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Right now he is still playing rather timid, and also has a Taylor Hall'esque side to his game where he still tries to do junior moves that do not work in the NHL.

This X 100.

I can't count the number of times the play dies on Bennetts's stick because he tries to do too much himself (toe-drag, deke). And this is happening on 2 on 1's and 3 on 2's because Bennett is always looking to shoot first, often from bad angles or into a defenceman.

It he's going to become an elite center, he's got to start using his wingers. He's too predictable. He needs to mix it up.

[activeStick]

Bennett's learning curve at a position that is tough to come into as a young player says a lot as well about Monahan's ability to do it and do it successfully. He obviously had his struggles this season but looking back to his rookie and sophomore campaigns, it's quite something what he was able to accomplish at his age back then.

[Heavy Jack]

I'd freak the entire league out by revealing my new 'Merge machine' that combines two willing players into a complete, super-freak-elite player.

Samthew Benchuk is a beast, he has insanely soft hands, is fleet of foot, can bash you with a clean hit (or his knuckles for that matter) an absolute rocket of a shot that can be stealthy, takes face-offs, Pker, PP catalyst, insane playmaking/vision.... The guy does it all...

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Bennett's learning curve at a position that is tough to come into as a young player says a lot as well about Monahan's ability to do it and do it successfully. He obviously had his struggles this season but looking back to his rookie and sophomore campaigns, it's quite something what he was able to accomplish at his age back then.

Thread derail alert:

As we all know, Sean Monahan was drafted in 2013.

Of all players drafted since 2011's draft, only 2 have scored more goals than Monahan's 90 - 2011's Brandon Saad (96) and 2011's Gabriel Landeskog (106). Both drafted 2 years earlier. None in 2012 or 2013.

Only 4 players have more points than Monahan's 179 - 2011's Landeskog (257), 2011's The Tenderness (238), 2011's Brandon Saad (208), and 2012's Galchenyuk (183).

That includes 427 players that were drafted before him in 2011, 2012 and 2013, and of course the remaining 205 that were drafted after him in 2013, for a total of 632. And of course all 632 drafted in 2014-16. I find that very impressive.

[GoJetsGo]

Bennett came into the league trying to play that crash and bang style with a teenage frame.

I still maintain he's going to take a couple years longer to truly emerge as he fills out his frame and gains man strength. He plays a heavy game now but still doesn't have the chops for it.

Once his body catches up I think he'll be a force to be reckoned with.

Tkachuk will also improve in that aspect as he gets older, but he came into the league considerably heavier than Bennett which is already visibly evident in the way he's able to handle himself going in against bigger NHLers.

In a couple years, we'll be thanking our lucky stars we have two formidable players in their prime cut from the same cloth.

[N-E-B]

I think Bennett has a higher cieling, and I think when both guys are playing their best hockey Bennett is better. Having said that, I think Tkachuk is far more consistent right now. He brings it every single night. Bennett is too streaky right now.

I really like both guys and I'm glad we have them, but at this point in time my vote goes to Tkachuk. He's possibly my new favourite Flame.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Curious why you see Bennett as a 80-90 point player? Those are real high expectations and something he will likely never reach.

Only elite centers ever hit a PPG.

Toews has hit 70 points once in his career.

Toews is vastly overrated production wise and is more of a two way C. Toews is a great leader and finds another gear in the post season but he is not that great of an offensive player. People seem to forget how young Bennett is, how much more he will fill out, and the fact that many including NHL Central Scouting had Bennett ranked as the #1 prospect going into the 2014 draft. I see Bennett's upside as Giroux with more bite to his game, that is how highly I think of his tools. Combine that with the fact he will probably have Johnny Gaudreau riding shotgun on his wing and I think 80-90 points is quite doable. Tkachuk has a great shot and great creativity, I think he reads the game better than Marchand who players that same style but is smaller. Marchand scored 37 goals last year. I really think some fans like to sell our guys short. These two were not low draft picks, they both have the talent to get there.

[Vinny01]

I think long term these 2 players will be a deadly combo on the same line.

[GranteedEV]

Here is a list of all the Under-23 NHL players this season over the 2.00 5-on-5 Points Rate, minimum 350 minutes played this season (I've added a column for their shorthanded ice time, and I have bolded Flames players)



What's crazy is, these two have barely even played together but both are on this list.

Remember, Tkachuk/Bennett's U23 peers - Monahan, Nylander, Draisaitl, Reinhart, Larkin, MacKinnon, Puljujarvi, Eichel, Laine have not hit the 2+ P/60 mark so far this season. And in Bennett's case, there are only three other centres on this list.

[Jason14h]

Anyone who thinks Bennett will get 80-90 pts is beyond crazy . And that is no knock on Bennett.

This would literally put Bennett as the 3rd best player behind Crosby and McD

[Pointman]

Neither Monahan nor Gaudreau are anywhere near 'total package', yet they are obviously making bigger impact tha Bennett. Total package is overrated. Having few elite qualities and being able to play to your strength are way more important. That's why I would take Tkachuk over Bennett, his combination of attributes and style of play seems to fit NHL a bit better.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If Tkachuk was a C, he'd be struggling to learn how to play his position at the NHL level right now.

In fact, there's a good chance that he'd be doing it in London.

Um, with his skillset, unlikely (to the London part).

Already proven that he's way more than even a fringe NHLer. A difference in position likely wouldn't change that.

[squiggs96]

Can someone fix the thread title please?

[djsFlames]

I see tremendous goal scoring ability when Sam is on his game and playing confidently, but I also see some lacking of IQ in his game. He doesn't go to the right places as often as Monahan or seem to know where his linemates are at all times like a Gaudreau. If he had more of that hockey sense, he might be this soon to be best organizational player that CPers have been trumpeting for some time, but as far as 1.5 seasons and a postseason worth of hockey, I don't see him having said highest ceiling that people here seem to be so confident about.

At his peak I think he could be a 55-65 point center. And that isn't too bad at all if you ask me. So long as he has a strong two-way game to go with it.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Can someone fix the thread title please?

Someone may have to write a book on how to spell hockey player names.

T-K-A-C-H-U-K
C-O-L-B-O-R-N-E
E-L-L-I-O-T-T
M-O-N-A-H-A-N
J-O-K-I-P-A-K-K-A

[Soliak]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Someone may have to write a book on how to spell hockey player names.

T-K-A-C-H-U-K
C-O-L-B-O-R-N-E
E-L-L-I-O-T-T
M-O-N-A-H-A-N
J-O-K-I-P-A-K-K-A

Perhaps you should start a thread on it?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't quite agree with the thread title and poll.

If I am the GM of an expansion franchise, I choose Bennett 10/10 times over Tkachuk simply because center is a much more difficult position to fill.

If I have a roster competing for cup with an abundance of talent at all positions, I may choose Tkachuk for the playoff run.

I may be obtuse here I guess, but that is just the way I see it. I really think Bennett is being undervalued. We as fans are exceptionally lucky to have two very great young players with sky-high potential growing before us.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't quite agree with the thread title and poll.

If I am the GM of an expansion franchise, I choose Bennett 10/10 times over Tkachuk simply because center is a much more difficult position to fill.

If I have a roster competing for cup with an abundance of talent at all positions, I may choose Tkachuk for the playoff run.

I may be obtuse here I guess, but that is just the way I see it. I really think Bennett is being undervalued. We as fans are exceptionally lucky to have two very great young players with sky-high potential growing before us.

To be fair while Bennett is a Center I really don't think he plays like one or will be a successful Center in this league until he gets much better in his own zone.

While Center is an important position, if you aren't strong defensively you're not more important than a winger and that's why I picked Tkachuk. Bennett has a lot to learn in the defensive end and until then I'd take Tkachuk. Like I said earlier way too early to judge but with a gun to my head next year for expansion I'd leave Bennett exposed instead of Tkachuk.

Thankfully we have both and don't have to actually make that decision yet. But for cap reasons we might just have to in the future.

[FBI]

^ Bennett has been looking damn good defensively on the PK lately.