Elliott vs. Johnson

[CliffFletcher]

Two veteran goalies who have never proven they can be reliable #1s are proving they aren't reliable #1s. The only surprise is Johnson looks like the better of the tandem so far.

[fire_starter]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Two veteran goalies who have never proven they can be reliable #1s are proving they aren't reliable #1s. The only surprise is Johnson looks like the better of the tandem so far.

Where have we heard this before?

I believe Johnson can be a #1. He even said so himself. It's just getting that opportunity. Yes he's lost his last three starts but the team didn't exactly play great in those either. All goalies hit rough patches.

[PepsiFree]

Sometimes people forget that a #1 goalie rarely looks like Carey Price or Sergie Bobrovsky. Even Bobrovsky doesn't always look like Bobrovsky.

Reliable #1 doesn't mean you don't hit bad patches, it means you're able to come out of them.

We might not be staring at two top 5 tenders in the league, but I would be surprised if neither Johnson or Elliott were looked at as average to above average starters by season's end. You don't need a top 5 goalie to be a top 5 team in the league.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I'm fairly sure that Elliot requested a trade, no? I am not convinced that the Blues were in a great hurry to move him.

I don't recall that. Is there a source for that rumour?

He is right though. Based on games played, Elliott has rarely been a #1 goalie and the teams he has been on have always been eager to improve in net to where he would get upstaged by the back-up.

Even his contract would suggest that he isn't paid like a sure-fire #1 goalie by today's standards.

He was a low-cost stop-gap, but I don't think he is a solution in net for this team any less than Johnson.

[sketchyt]

From a technical standpoint, Elliott is a much better goaltender than Johnson.

My armchair analysis:

Elliott (the good): Good size, exceptionally mobile with terrific reflexes, decent puck handler, good glove hand. Ability to play aggressively and get to the post quickly. One of the better goalies in the league at finding and covering the puck... a very underrated skill set.

Elliott (the bad): Over aggressiveness in poor situations leads him to follow the shooters body instead of the release (I wonder if he's even gambling a bit). Very aggressive positioning of blocker hand which allows a big humangous opening in the underarm blocker side. These two things are KILLING him right now. They are also opening up other weaknesses in his game that I feel typically aren't weaknesses (i.e. weird rebounds, late glove hand).

Johnson (the good): Positionally nearly perfect and reads shooters well. Seals his five hole consistently, and generally difficult to beat down low. Has a rare skill to stay very upright with upper body when going down in the butterfly even when sliding. It's very difficult to do and this is why pucks die when the puck hits his chest. Excellent at getting to his post (then again, with his lack of mobility, he really has no choice).

Johnson (the bad): Poor mobility. His positioning makes up for some of it but basically has zero ability to play further than half a foot outside his crease. He can and will be beat up high. Get him constantly moving side-to-side-to-side and he will struggle. This is why his numbers are coming down, I'm noticing teams adjust, moving the puck more, and going upstairs. Terribad puck handler.

Anyways, Elliott is by far the more dynamic goaltender and has shown it in the past. He's basically a B/B+ version of Cory Schneider. Johnson is a C+ version of Luongo. Any hope of the Flames getting into the playoffs and excelling still rides on Elliott getting his effing game in gear IMO. Would love to hear from other beer league goaltenders' perspectives.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Johnson (the bad): Poor mobility. His positioning makes up for some of it but basically has zero ability to play further than half a foot outside his crease. He can and will be beat up high. Get him constantly moving side-to-side-to-side and he will struggle. This is why his numbers are coming down, I'm noticing teams adjust, moving the puck more, and going upstairs. Terribad puck handler.

I never saw issues with movement. Rather, I think Chad's difficulty is with point shots with traffic - seems like he got beat clean by a few of those vs TB, CBJ, and SJ. He tends to default into the butterfly for those he can't track, which leads to him getting beat high or just inside the post on those.

Side-to-side lateral movement isn't nearly an issue, as the Flames defense are doing great at preventing the cross-crease and backdoor passes. They just need to help the goalies out by clearing the lane.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

I never saw issues with movement. Rather, I think Chad's difficulty is with point shots with traffic - seems like he got beat clean by a few of those vs TB, CBJ, and SJ. He tends to default into the butterfly for those he can't track, which leads to him getting beat high or just inside the post on those.

Side-to-side lateral movement isn't nearly an issue, as the Flames defense are doing great at preventing the cross-crease and backdoor passes. They just need to help the goalies out by clearing the lane.

Interesting. I don't see issues with movement either, it's just slow and that's why he plays deep. I've seen a number of pucks beat him clean and he's swimming in blue paint.

[CSharp]

Both goalies suck when they're going down on their knees and sitting back at the crease all night long. None of these goalies will ever win doing that when the D breaks down in their own zone. However, Johnson has shown that he can scramble a bit better than Elliot. Every time I see Elliot play, I think of McElhinney or Hiller.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't recall that. Is there a source for that rumour?

He is right though. Based on games played, Elliott has rarely been a #1 goalie...

He is partially right about Elliot, but wrong about Johnson. Both goalies are a stop gap, and I am not convinced that either is a bona fide starter. I think that as a pair they provide what the Flames need for now, which is competent goaltending and enough saves for the team to win any given night.

[greentree]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Elliott looks small in net and let in two average to weak goals last night. He's been extremely lucky with his competition in these 3 games and still let in a few softies. He loses his net often and over commits and leaves half the net open.

I think Elliott has let in more soft goals in the last 3 games than Johnson has in the prior 10-12.

I think Johnson is the much better goalie.

Agree 100%. Words right out of my mouth.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

He is partially right about Elliot, but wrong about Johnson. Both goalies are a stop gap, and I am not convinced that either is a bona fide starter. I think that as a pair they provide what the Flames need for now, which is competent goaltending and enough saves for the team to win any given night.

Brian Elliott is a two time all star with extended periods of .920+ save percentages. If that doesn't make the standard of bona fide starter, There might only be 8 goalies that meets your standards.

[Jaydee]

Team has been winning in spite of Elliott not because of him, against the worst teams in the league. Johnson and it's not even close

[The Yen Man]

I'd personally just call the two a tandem, and go with that. You ride whichever goalie is winning you games. Right now it's Elliott. In a week, it could be Johnson.

Yes, this is sort of like the Dallas situation, but at half the price. So I'm ok with the current situation in the short term, and then see what the goalie market is like in the off season. I wouldn't rush to sign either goalie to an extension until then TBH.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

Team has been winning in spite of Elliott not because of him, against the worst teams in the league. Johnson and it's not even close

Agreed, I still have faith that Elliot can turn it around and he's got a higher upside due to his past performance but he's got to stop letting muffins in.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

Team has been winning in spite of Elliott not because of him, against the worst teams in the league.

He's let in some iffy goals but he's also made up for it by making some big saves. The 5 on 3 for Arizona for example.

Overall Johnson's played better this season but Elliott deserves to keep the net.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't recall that. Is there a source for that rumour?

http://www.stlouisgametime.com/2016/...doug-armstrong

[tvp2003]

So for the pro-Johnson crowd, when do you get him back in net? If Elliott keeps winning, the next obvious spot is the back-to-back against Vancouver. But by then it will have been a good 2.5 weeks between starts. Fortunately, Johnson seems like someone who doesn't need a lot of time to get in a groove. However, if this is going to be a true 1a and 1b tandem, I wonder if you start him in Arizona regardless of whether Elliott wins against Anaheim (unless he gets a shutout or plays extremely well). I think there is a fine line between rest versus rust -- and the answer is not always black and white...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MJK

I like what I have seen from Johnson more. I feel more comfortable with him in the net.

There wasn't as much expectations put on Johnson as compared to Elliott and I really think it made his transition into a Flames jersey that much easier.

[N-E-B]

At the end of the day does it really matter how the goals go in? A goal is a goal. As long as Elliott is keeping out more than the other goalie he's doing his job. The overreactions in this thread are ridiculous.

I prefer Johnson myself too, but Elliott isn't playing bad hockey right now.

[Gaskal]

Still like Johnson more due to his consistency, but right now you can't mess with a team that's winning. If Elliott loses, then he's in again. But until then you keep Moose in and see if he can't rediscover his playoffs form. So far he's doing that.... slowly.

The last few goals that beat him:

-Landeskog beating Monahan to the inside (stoppable if he stayed firm, but forgivable)
-Iginla howitzer
-Landeskog howitzer
-Weird pop fly (vs VAN)
-Hiller-esque muffin
-Hiller-esque giveaway